icarus: Snape by mysterious artist (Default)
[personal profile] icarus
Happy birthday, [profile] amothea. I know, I'm a couple days late. But I'm always late.

Teens should be able to read, yes?

Hellooooo, English majors. Prepare to be appalled.

The local school district's high school reading list includes not one, but three books by Stephanie Meyers.

Yes, three out of five recommended books are the Twilight series.

Now I'm a populist when it comes to books. You like it? Read it! I even enjoyed the first Twilight movie (sorry, folks). I can see the teenage girl emotions, the fears and hopes that it hooks.

But. As an SAT tutor I'm finding again and again that my students are stymied by vocabulary.

I'm talking about advanced placement English students and non-AP kids. They're stumbling over sentence completions, unfamiliar with a third of the words presented. They misconstrue college level journal articles because key phrases go over their heads. One poor girl couldn't grasp the meaning of a paragraph because every word she could have used to triangulate the meaning of the others ... she'd never encountered before.

One look at what they read, and yeah, I can see why.

Even books assigned for English classes are accessible modern lit, accessible world lit, or easy translations of The Odyssey. I don't complain about the exposure to a broad range of literature. That's excellent. But aside from the occasional Dickens, I don't see any challenging vocab.

Now I've been asked to create a reading list for our tutoring center. Thank god.

Off the cuff, I'm thinking 19th century lit, Jane Austen, the Bronte sisters (what Twilight fan wouldn't love Wuthering Heights?), the bible (for those who lean that way), the British-produced World Air Power journal for the military-minded boys (I've had to look up vocab in their country-by-county analysis).

I'm open to suggestions. What do you think high school students should read?

Date: 2010-02-14 06:46 pm (UTC)
meansgirl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] meansgirl
Well, I don't know what they *should* be reading but here's what I read in high school:

Required: Chespeake by Michener; Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth, Midsummer Night's Dream; Crime and Punishment; The Odyssey; The Hobbit; Siddhartha; Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe; Lord Jim by Joseph Conrad; The Great Gatsby; Lord of the Flies; The Scarlet Letter; A Separate Peace; Death of a Salesman and The Crucible. (I am sure there are lots more but I can't remember, I had to reference a list and pick the ones I remembered)

Books I Chose for Projects: Pride and Prejudic; Picture of Dorian Gray; Kafka's Metamorphosis; Orlando by Virginia Woolf; Ethan Frome; Jane Eyre; The God of Small Things by Arundhati Roy; The Virgin Suicides.

And those are just the books I read for school. I also tackled the rest of Jane Austen, some Shakespeare, LOTR, etc. etc. The only books I think I read "just for fun" were the Harry Potter series, and the occasional YA novel when I worked at the public library my junior and senior year.

It makes me really sad to think Twilight is a suggested reading book. There is nothing challenging about them at all. They don't even encourage critical thinking on the part of the reader--conflicts are so mickey-moused and easily resolved it's ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that the so-called heroine is...ugh, Bella Swan. Makes my stomach turn.

Date: 2010-02-14 06:50 pm (UTC)
lotesse: (merlin_rexfuturus)
From: [personal profile] lotesse
TH White's The Once and Future King. For serious - I learned so many words - and other things - from that book.

Date: 2010-02-14 06:54 pm (UTC)
meansgirl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] meansgirl
I meant to also point out that my English teacher in 10th and 11th grade was HUGE on vocabulary. Like, really a hard-ass about it. We didn't just read those books, we had to pick 20 words per chapter to use in sentences in our daily lives and we had spelling tests, even in high school. We also had to write a critical analysis for every book, and then an independent paper on a book of our choice at the end of each year. I credit my 700 verbal score on the SAT to the teachers who made us do all of that. I was in a GT classroom, though. In my senior year I TA-ed for a standard English class (11th grade, I think) and it was *very* different.

Date: 2010-02-14 08:20 pm (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
I have a very cynical view of required reading. After high school and then being an English major, I know that most students will never crack those books. They'll use cliffs notes or spark notes or some other kind of aid. As far as I'm concerned, the target needs to be what the students are reading anyway. My vocabulary didn't grow because of the books I was reading (well, not very much), but it did grow because I started reading fanfiction and had to keep going back and forth between the fic and dictionary.com because I didn't know what words meant.

I support vocabulary classes, like elementary school spelling classes. I don't support politicking with required reading, because no one does it anyway. And I don't completely blame them; I have seen the English Lit Canon and...uh, most of it is bad? Okay, not most of it, but when I look at the books I had to read, it was a whole lot of terrible. You can analyze how a book fits into its historical context or whatever, but it won't make me read it if it's something like the Last of the Mohicans or Grapes of Wrath or Great Expectations. And that brings me to another point, that of personal taste. Some people like Dickens; I would rather have a root canal.

I have looked into the English Lit canon and the abyss looked back. I think we need to start thinking of required reading as the gateway drug to reading. Load the students up with stuff they'll actually read, and they'll keep reading. Don't try to shove the Tomes Of Boredom down their throats, because they won't get read and they'll scare people away from reading.

Date: 2010-02-14 08:22 pm (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
Oooh, I love that book. It works on so many levels. I read it for the first time in elementary school as an adventure story, and when I went back to it later, I saw so much more in it.

Date: 2010-02-14 08:32 pm (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
Okay, that said, the last thing I read as required reading that was totally worth it was Lieutenant Nun, and my presentation on it included a handout on LGBT terms from the HRC and GenderPAC. But possibly a little out of place for high school.

Date: 2010-02-14 09:00 pm (UTC)
james: (Default)
From: [personal profile] james
I have to admit, my first reaction is "I'm just glad if they read." I know so many adults who admit they never read, and the Twilight series was the first time they actually read books (instead of magazines.) So I want to say I'm grateful if someone reads -- though I do happily admit I hope they move on to reading good books.

I don't know that specific titles matter so much to me, as I would like to see teenagers forced to read a variety of books. One book written in the 18th century. One book written by a South American author. One book written by a black woman in the 1900s. A classic Chinese literature translation. Gilgamesh. The Pillow Book.

I think a classroom is a good place to expose kids to the options and hope they find something they fall in love with and then pursue enough reading to expand their vocabulary. Because, honestly, I don't think that they'll get what you're saying they need simply by reading a few carefully-selected books in class. (Heck, I got through my high school required reading by reading the first chapter, last chapter, then copying off friends' papers. But that was because I didn't want to take away time from reading science fiction.)

But I agree that *three* Twilight books as required reading is too much.

Date: 2010-02-14 09:15 pm (UTC)
mrshamill: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrshamill
The Count of Monte Cristo. Hands down.

Now, my background favors a more fantasy/sf bend, so if I were to go that route, I'd also say The Gate to Women's Country by Sherri Tepper, Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang by Kate Wilhelm, and for sheer fun, add some Mary Stuart, like any of the Merlin books. Mary Renault, too. Hmm. My list is female heavy, innit?

The Child (who isn't a child any more and is going to be an English teacher) adds Flowers for Algernon, Shakespeare (not the overused ones, but the good ones, like King Lear, Coriolanus, Richard III). Both of us say Neil Gaiman, because for modern lit, nobody can beat him.

BTW, she was as appalled as you at the Meyer thing.

Date: 2010-02-14 09:30 pm (UTC)
quinfirefrorefiddle: Van Gogh's painting of a mulberry tree. (Default)
From: [personal profile] quinfirefrorefiddle
Well, keeping in mind that I was not a normal high school student in terms of what I was reading....

Actually, I got most of my vocab out of scifi. You can get some out of the classics, sure, but the British ones will give American students spelling headaches and so many of the words aren't used in everyday life anymore. But good, classic scifi, especially the hard science type, has a lot of great vocab in it. I'd suggest Asimov, Clarke, Herbert, Bradbury, some of Heinlein's short stories.

I also got some vocab from detective stories, but most of my favorites are British (Christie and Sayers). Or, let's see- Philip Roth? Gregory Maguire? "Time Traveller's Wife"?

Date: 2010-02-14 10:18 pm (UTC)
auburn: (Book Pile)
From: [personal profile] auburn
This is difficult because on the whole I hated required reading because I'd already read it or it was something from the great 'lit canon' that bored the bejesus out of me. I never needed it for vocabulary. I was one of those annoying kids who would use words the teacher probably had to check the dictionary for: tergiversations comes to mind. (I was on a Gene Wolfe kick at the time.)

I think getting girls to read may be a little easier, because there's no (or less?) peer pressure over appearing geekish. So I thought about what boys might like, which lead to an all male author list. That's okay, some of the other comments are handling the women. Off the top of my head, weighted slightly toward the popular:

A Tale of Two Cities, Charles Dickens (it's exciting, it's historical, it's the only Dickens that doesn't put me to sleep, it's something other than Tiny Effing Tim.)

Wildfire, Zane Grey (western, horses, racing, adventure, a little G-rated romance - at least you won't have parents jumping all over you about it, though it's the most adult thing he ever wrote.)

Dracula, Bram Stoker (yeah, yeah, vampires, but it's the foundation of the genre, has a good vocabulary, gets pretty exciting toward the end, and is an example of the epistolary novel to boot.)

The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, Robert Heinlein (moon colony rebellion, straight forward, clear writing, concepts and vocabulary, stand-alone.)

A Fire in Heaven, Mary Renault (Alexander the Great, from childhood to the first flush of success.)

The Three Musketeers, Alexandre Dumas (the humor and adventure should balance the difficulties of the difference in writing styles between then and now. Though as some noted, as a classic, there are cliff notes and even movies.)

Shogun, James Clavell

Centennial, James Michener (maybe just the first half, it's huge.)

Nerve, Dick Francis

The Stryker Portfolio, Adam Hall

Nine Princes in Amber, Roger Zelazny

Flood, Andrew Vachhs

Hungry as the Sea, Wilbur Smith


Ooooh, a woman author, vocabulary thick (even I look up stuff reading some of her stuff):

The Game of Kings, Dorothy Dunnett (First book of the Lymond Chronicles, stands alone very well.)

Date: 2010-02-15 03:06 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
Um, I read a lot of Stephen King in middle school. Honestly, I don't recall feeling challenged when reading since I left middle school. (beyond Shakesphere of course)

I don't think it would hurt to recommend the Stand, or Talisman by Stephen King or the Dark Tower series (lots of themes there)

Dracula was pretty good for an old book. The Outsiders (I didn't read this until I was 16)

Watership Down by Richard Adams.

The Last Unicorn by Peter Beagle.
Joan D. Vinge The Snow Queen.
The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman. (that was a bit challenging for me when I hit it)
The Glory Season by David Brin.
Anything by Storm Constantine.

The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan
Daggerspell by Katharine Kerr (great for old celtic languages)

Thanks for the b-day wishes! :)

more titles

Date: 2010-02-15 03:09 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
The Other Boylen Girl by Phillip Gregory
Outlander by Diana Gabladon
Gone with the Wind by Margart Mitchell
Empire of the Sun (um forgot the author's name)
The Dragonbone Chair by Tad Williams (great imagery and wonderful start to a fantasy epic)
The Lord of the Rings trilogy.
the Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb

I think what kills me is I don't think kids read and they don't read variety.

Date: 2010-02-15 03:10 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
I think finding books that don't have cliff notes is a great start. :) but I agree...most old books are easy to fake on tests.

Date: 2010-02-15 03:12 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
I was shocked when we got Lord of the Flies as required reading in 12th grade. I had read the story on my own when I was 12. It was a good story but not senior level reading.

Date: 2010-02-15 03:18 am (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
I think finding books that don't have cliff notes is a great start.

There are spark notes for Harry Potter. A piece of my soul died when I found that out.

Date: 2010-02-15 03:24 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
yikes. I think the key is to find books that are not regular assigned reading. I've never seen cliff notes for Stephen King's It or the Talisman for example. Or Ender's Game...(though I haven't checked in a few years I could be wrong?)

But it does kill me that people need cliff notes for Harry Potter!

Date: 2010-02-15 03:28 am (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
I did two summer reading book reports on Dracula (we couldn't keep a teacher longer than a year ;) ). I totally recommend it to preteens and teenagers. It's a million times better than Twilight and other knockoffs, and it's got sex and violence.

If I went to a school that would have let me read Moon is a Harsh Mistress...oh my god, I would have loved that school. There is just so much you can do with that book. The voice alone, oh my god. And then once you get past the adventure rebellion story, you realize it's an asymetrical warfare textbook. And then, and then...etc. (and unlike some other Grownup Heinlein, there's no romanticizing of incest.) TMIAHM is also a gateway drug to scifi and Heinlein.

In similar sci-fi, I'd add Dune to your list. (I summarize the entire Dune series as "be careful what you wish for. No, really.")

I read the Three Musketeers after seeing the Wishbone episode. *shuffles feet* Wishbone was pretty good for that stuff. ;) Then I got into all of the Dumas books after watching the Leonardo DiCaprio version of Man in the Iron Mask, which ended up being v. v. different from the book. I'm a fan of watching the movie, then reading the book, and laughing at all the differences.
Edited Date: 2010-02-15 03:28 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-02-15 03:36 am (UTC)
meansgirl: (Default)
From: [personal profile] meansgirl
Funnily enough, I was required to read it first in 7th grade and again in high school I think my junior year. That happened more than once, the repeat thing between middle and high school. Then I went to college and had to take Lit and Writing I and II and ended up having to reread much of what I read in high school. Which reminds me, Canterbury Tales! I can't believe I forgot about Chaucer! The number of times I have had to read Canterbury Tales is OBSCENE. Not that I didn't love each reread :)

Date: 2010-02-15 03:42 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
ah man! This sucks! people probably get spoilers before they read the book! and it's a really good book. I never used cliff notes myself and it baffles me that anyone would need them. They aren't exactly assigning rocket science books to the students here.

Date: 2010-02-15 03:43 am (UTC)
auburn: Auburn: Green Meters (Default)
From: [personal profile] auburn
Speaking of The Three Musketeers, the Richard Lester directed movies (The Three Musketeers and The Four Musketeers were filmed all at one) are the best adaptations of a novel I've ever seen, beautiful, clever, humorous and true to the book. About the only movie from a book where comparison doesn't make you laugh sadly.

I completely agree that there is so much you could draw out of The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress. Everything from 'no free lunch' to the idea that monogamous pairbonds aren't the only marriage paradigm to eco-consciousness (paying for air and water) to the ending, where the lesson is that winning a war isn't all chocolate and roses - they still lose Mike.

And Dracula is a better book than it is given credit for being; if it was only the power of the archetype drawing readers back, we'd be reading Polidori and not Stoker.

Date: 2010-02-15 03:55 am (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
Everything from 'no free lunch' to the idea that monogamous pairbonds aren't the only marriage paradigm to eco-consciousness (paying for air and water) to the ending, where the lesson is that winning a war isn't all chocolate and roses - they still lose Mike.

And Prof! And all of Prof's ideaology is just swept away. He never gets the government he wanted. From the first part of the book (I see in Lunaya Pravda re:taxation), you see how they didn't get a brave new world, there's no ideal, people are still people. But they also didn't get food riots, and Prof's plan to get rid of exportation also worked. And some things remain as we see in Cat that Walks Through Walls. (And Heinlein retconned himself later and saved Mike.)

Plus all the meshing together of languages, and the idealization of marrying between ethnic groups, and how having many different kinds of marriage isn't "strange", because Luna pulls from all parts of Earth, so what's strange in one place is normal in another. And something that made me tear up recently was the realization that, on Earth, a girl getting raped? Is "just another day". In Luna, it was their watershed event. There's a lot to talk about with regards to Heinlein and women, but...that made me tear up.

Date: 2010-02-15 04:14 am (UTC)
auburn: Auburn: Green Meters (Default)
From: [personal profile] auburn
on Earth, a girl getting raped? Is "just another day". In Luna, it was their watershed event. There's a lot to talk about with regards to Heinlein and women...

Oh, hell to the yeah. Of course Heinlein can be criticized from a feminist perspective or a pacifist one or any number of other things, but he wasn't a mysogynist and neither rape or child abuse are ever acceptable or rationalized as acceptable in his work.

(And Heinlein retconned himself later and saved Mike.)

I try to ignore most everything he wrote after Friday and Job. Especially when he started tying everything together and 'saving' dead characters from previous books. It's too much like what [personal profile] thefourthvine just dubbed 'The Whips and Presents Method', where every sequel is bondage porn or buying sprees. Endemic in fanfiction, but not exclusive to it.

Though coming to think of it, that might be a great draw for teenagers: kinky sex and shopping! What more could they ask for?

Date: 2010-02-15 04:28 am (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
Heh. And Job! Oh my god, the dishwasher's guide to existentialism. I had to read that book a couple times to get how creepy the protag and his world was was from our world's pov, everything is all so well blended together.

Also...please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste. ;) I can't help it, I 'ship Alex/Lucifer.

Date: 2010-02-15 04:44 am (UTC)
auburn: (Blue Ribbon)
From: [personal profile] auburn
Hee, I'm so glad I wasn't drinking anything just now.

how creepy the protag and his world was was from our world's pov

And yet, I think that book made me more sympathetic to people with faith, even while I became even more skeptical of religon. Heinlein was a sneaky writer -- he could make things seem so plausible. He was a masterful storyteller from a technical viewpoint. His books suck you in completely. Plus, whether you agree with him or not, you're left with all those ideas to consider, good or bad.

[personal profile] icarus: sorry for hijacking your journal, but it's great fun to find anyone who knows the same books.

Date: 2010-02-15 04:53 am (UTC)
auburn: mittened hands holding hot cocoa (Cocoa makes warm hands)
From: [personal profile] auburn
Is the chamomile-peppermint? Two lumps please.

Re: more titles

Date: 2010-02-15 05:31 am (UTC)
amalthia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] amalthia
I think for me I've loved reading since I was a kid so it's hard to imagine having to force someone to read! or spending thousands for help on SAT.

Date: 2010-02-15 08:06 am (UTC)
auburn: Auburn: Green Meters (Default)
From: [personal profile] auburn
Too bad about the Heinlein. I wouldn't say his English is clipped, but science fiction, TMIAHM in particular, has a lot of neologisms and bastardized non-English words, so if English vocab is your goal, it probably isn't the best choice. Shogun might not be a great choice for Asians either, unless you want to invite them to read it for inaccuracies?

Date: 2010-02-15 04:25 pm (UTC)
quinfirefrorefiddle: Van Gogh's painting of a mulberry tree. (SW:TPM)
From: [personal profile] quinfirefrorefiddle
What about Wodehouse and Sayers, then? Good period pieces and humor, too.

Date: 2010-02-16 03:53 am (UTC)
sgrio: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sgrio
Jumping in to second the Dunnett rec: lure them in with "historical romance" (rogues and sword-fights and fiesty Irish maidens, etc.) and then, WHAM. World-class writing that keeps your brain moving, and a hell of a plot to boot. :)

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