Live Journal Etiquette

[icarus]

Today I told Wilderness Guru about an LJ friend whose cat just had kittens. I expected a squeal of delight. Instead he asked, "When is she going to have her kitty spayed?" When I didn't know he urged:

"You should tell her that she should have mamma kitty spayed."

What? No!

This is exactly why I'm locking my journal entries. People don't know the difference between a thread in a public forum (he spends a lot of time on backpacker.com) and an open journal entry.

The difference between a Journal and a Forum.
An open Live Journal entry and a thread in a Forum are both:
a) public
b) available for comments

There the similiarity ends.

A Forum is a place for public discussion. You place a post there with the expectation for debate and opposition. You're posting for strangers. Religious wackos and people who hate your point of view are to be expected. The purpose of it being public is to draw out others' (hopefully intelligent) responses.

A Journal is a place for personal thoughts and musings. You have a friendlist and it's called that for a reason. While these people might not be all that close, everyone here knows it's a journal and what's posted is to a degree personal. Religious wacko-reactions or arguments that 'you should spay your cats!' are inappropriate. The purpose of it being public is simply to air ones views in a kind of anonymity.

The Forum is a kind of pulpit.
The Journal is a gathering of friends.

Even where your friendslist disagrees or a debate is welcome - a lively discussion can be a welcome addition to a party - the etiquette that applies is not that of the pulpit, but that of being a guest. A guest at a party will always introduce themselves first and check to see if discussion is appropriate. Note: often a topic will be deliberately opened for debate. But the journal owner will say so.

Introducing oneself.
An introduction does not consist of a listing of qualifications to support your argument ("I'm a cat lover and I work for such-and-such animal shelter!"). That's how one acts in a Forum. An introduction is, "Hi I've been reading your journal/saw this posted at my friend's journal/I love cats too."

The feeler.
Then, you put out a feeler to be sure debate is welcome. The more of a stranger you are to the host, the more circumspect you should be. If it helps, visualise the music, the chatting guests, the hors d'oeuvres. For the socially inexperienced, the feeler is, "I love kittens, but I've had my kitties spayed..." followed by the 'generic safe intro' "...I always worry about kittens finding homes." This opens the topic without crossing into dangerous ground. Then you can watch the response. If it's negative, it's best to back away.

Beware the trap of imitating the host's best friend. If the best friend starts in with "darling, I really think you ought to spay your kitty" that is not an opportunity for you to jump in and add your two cents. The person who has a closer relationship with your host can say things you cannot.

If you don't know who's the best friend, that's a good sign you're a stranger. Random bombast, particularly from a gate-crasher, is rude. Though again it's completely appropriate to a thread in a public Forum.

Ultimately, the Forum belongs to a disinterested third party.
The Journal is the premises of your host.

Comments

[jackoweskla.livejournal.com]

::adds to memories:: Once again, you manage to word things perfectly! I think that's why I don't frequent forums to much; journals have that personal touch and that friendship factor that so much more pleasing.

[tonksnymphadora.livejournal.com]

I just have to comment on WildernessGuru's comments (and maybe this will soothe ruffled feathers between the two of you) and that is tht cats who have one litter are more likely to live longer and be healthier. They are less likely to have cancer and diseases.

Hope I don't start a war here.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, WG and I don't have wars... *shifty eyes* Not ones that I don't win anyway. Ahem.

I will pass that along, but he will require more facts as to why. I personally think kitties should have the opportunity to be a mom once. As a Buddhist, I think it's great karma. Hell to find homes for the kittens. I've decided that you need cultivate the homes from the second week on... start posting pictures in the office of these cute balls of fluff... mention they'll be looking for homes in six weeks... cultivate...

Kitten Lust.

It's very effective. Heh.

Of course, the other thing Wilderness Guru said was, "does she have any pictures?" :D You gotta understand. This man loves cats. He'll stop me cold for any commercial with a cat in it.

Icarus

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[fiatincantatum.livejournal.com]

*laugh* I understand completely... a cat could probably sell me just about anything. My favorite comercial of all time has to be the "Cat Herders" one from a few years ago (closely followed by one for the same company entitled "Running with the Squirrels."

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[thisveryinstant.livejournal.com]

Totally random factoid: according to a Bio teacher I once had, that's true of humans, too. According to him, some recent studies have shown that women who have been pregnant are far less likely to develop certain forms of cancer. Which makes sense, because for most of our evolutionary history, women were pregnant most of the time. Interesting.

Hope this is a kosher post.... *etiquette-challenged*

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[ridicully]

Sorry to intrude here, but that's not true.
Cats and dogs are *more* likely to get cancer if you don't spay them early.
If spayed before the first heat, the receptors for hormones aren't 'activated' and those are necessary for the induction of cancer.
I'm not saying that any cat who had kittens is doomed to die early, but one shouldn't force a pregnancy for 'health reasons'.

[pxr5.livejournal.com]

I tend to think of it this way:

One's personal LJ is just that...*personal*. IMHO, it isn't appropriate to ever flame or be openly antagonistic to folks on their personal journal (unless you are a *very* good friend and can get away with it), as (insert another imho here) people are entitled to believe and do what they will.

However, entries in LJ communities are different, and exactly like public forums (akin to Usenet of old ;-) )

So, all in all, I agree! (grin)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yep. LJ communities are exactly like Forums, I agree. I sort of forgot about those.

icarus

[milkthistle.livejournal.com]

Yes, I completely agree. People generally tend to understand and respect the difference between the two, although I have seen cases where popular LJ users (like BNFs) get their livejournals treated like public forums with no regard for all the things you just mentioned.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I've seen it, too.

It might be that proprietary sense that people have over minor celebrities or 'names.' I know that I feel like I 'know' Cassandra Claire just because I've read everything of hers that I can lay my hands on. But I don't really. The relationship is one-way.

This is even supported by law. 'Public figures' can be lampooned in a way that would be legally considered slander for anyone else.

So probably a locked journal is inevitable. I call the friends filter my 'string-line.' It's pretty easy to get past or be allowed in, but it's a clear demarcation that you're reading something private.

Icarus

Just FYI...not that this is a forum, but. ;)

[tartanshell.livejournal.com]

And because I really, really don't want wildernessguru or you (or anyone!) to have the wrong idea!

I'm a cat breeder--I have a cattery, am vet-inspected, and am registered with the Cat Fanciers' Association. It's my passion and how I will (hopefully) make (part of) a living.

All of my kittens will find homes. Good homes, from people who are willing to buy them with a spay/neuter contract (I won't sell them any other way)--and who are willing to pay a lot of money for a purebred Siamese kitten, so they'll take good care of it.

This isn't a housepet who accidentally got pregnant. This was a careful, planned breeding of two unrelated Siamese (I refuse to line- or in-breed) to get healthy, purebred babies for people who will adore them.

Anyway. I've shelled out all my savings to start a cattery, no way am I gonna spay my kitty.

...And I know this totally wasn't the point, but I had to jump to my own defense. *facepalm*

[cracking-heart.livejournal.com]

like the others, i think you expressed this perfectly. i've had people leap into my main journal, when i've made some seemingly innocuous post, and start using some little part of the post as a springboard for their own views on whatever. it's so annoying. the only time i've ever deleted someone else's comment on my journal was when one particularly offensive reply ticked me off too much. bad etiquette on my part, but i found it preferable to getting angry in public.

so, yeah. what you said. ;)

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[icegemini.livejournal.com]

*licks your icon* Drool...

Oh yeah. Um, word!

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[cracking-heart.livejournal.com]

oh, they are pretty, aren't they? :D

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[icegemini.livejournal.com]

*g* YES. But when I saw them in concert, it was after he cut and re-dyed his hair *sadness*

[mark356.livejournal.com]

See, while I understand that people think of their journals as very personal (and an individual journals are!), I still like to think of my journal as a public forum. Anyone and everyone is welcome; I am glad for whatever discussion takes place on my journal. I don't know all of the viewpoints of all of my LJ friends-of, so I am prepared for people who do not share my viewpoints, even if I don't always know how to respond to them. My journal is indeed a gathering of friends (or at least acquaintances), but anyone is welcome to drop in at any time.

(Of course, at my current level of popularity, it's sort of pretentious for me to say that, since my journal entries tend to not be particularly discussion-inspiring, but I can still consider my journal public!)

Not that I disagree with you; your party metaphor is quite apt, and I tend to open my responses on other people's journals (who haven't friended me) like you say: I'd never really thought about the reasons, but you describe them well.

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[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

That's how I used to feel about it: hey, this is the internet and it's a Live Journal. That means public. But three firestorms later (a little strong-arming from one person, people calling each other names in my journal, etc.) I realised, "Hey. This is a lot more public than I intended." It was one thing when there were thirty people involved. Once it got bigger all these politics developed. I get enough shitty politics and interpersonal crap at the office, I don't need it here. This is for fun.

Icarus

[katuah]

wow, now I'm getting the oogies about always posting public on my LJ. I guess I *always* thought of LJ as more of a "friendly get-together" than a forum. I am just not very good at the forum thing, it's so.... impersonal. duh. I prefer to communicate with people whom I know at least something about, and who can find out a bit about me from my own journal - i.e. maybe not "best friends," but not strangers exactly either. It gives more of a common base on which to build courteous interaction. I agree, much like a party - you share at least knowing the same person, and interaction beyond that should remain within the bounds of courtesy proscribed by the party host - or in this case, the LJ'er.
of course, I am from the South. Where one always smiles and is polite, even while slipping the arsenic in the mimosa.

[jeddy83.livejournal.com]

While I agree with everything you have said, I'm not sure that everyone feels quite the same way about their LJ (or LJ in general). Some people only post fannish musings in their LJ, and others post discussion items for issues not relating to fandom at all. Linking to interesting posts in other people's journals also seems to be quite common. The community metablog exists just for this purpose. Which means that if someone finds your post interesting you might find a bunch of strangers treating your journal like a discussion list.

While I agree that it is sad that it's necessary, locking posts you don't want strangers, or perhaps just rude strangers, commenting on is probably the best thing to do.

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[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I agree. This is my journal and therefore my own personal philosophy. Linking is fine. I used to not want to friendslock anything - hell, I still don't - but it looks like I have to.

Icarus

[thisveryinstant.livejournal.com]

Boundaries are so weird on livejournal. There was a discussion about friending (http://www.livejournal.com/users/thisveryinstant/32528.html) recently on my LJ, one of the things that came up was the fact that we're not allowed to kick trolls like kkk_membership off our friends-of lists. Obviously I have no right to tell someone that they can't read my public entries...but being friended by someone, and having their name appear on my userinfo page, feels like an invasion of my space. More to the point, it's the INTENTION of these troll types to invade people's space by friending them. The line between public and private can get very blurry.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Also, friendslists start out small and intimate, and then there's a sloooow sea-change over time.

Without noticing, suddenly you're talking to an entirely different audience.

But also what I use LJ for has changed over time.

Originally I kept it to fandom and kept my personal life, irritations et al out of it. Now I use it a lot more. So it's shifted on both ends.

One thing I never intend to do is start editing what I say. I have to do that enough elsewhere. I'm good at it, but I really hate politics.

Icarus

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[thisveryinstant.livejournal.com]

I'm good at it, but I really hate politics.

You can't get away from the politics surrounding the friending thing. People really get upset if they're unfriended, or not friended to begin with. Your friends-of list is indicates where your allegences and interests lie, and your status (well, popularity) within your circle.

But the flist is also a utlitarian thing, so you can't really opt out. It's a really strange system. I'm curious to see what will happen when the new friending system goes into effect? Although I have a feeling that it'll just lead to more wank...

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[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've always friended everyone who friends me. So there's no status involved, never has been. And the friendslist thing's already in place though I'm not sure how to use it yet. But anyone who wants to be in just needs drop me a comment, it's not an exclusive club.

Oh please, let's have the wankiness die down...

I could from here on out put up pointless, silly, fun posts but. That's not me.

Icarus

[anandsdiary.livejournal.com]

Hmm, this is such a well worded explanation of what a Live Journal should be and I wish everyone would take note of it. In a perfect world, perhaps they would, but every now and then, when I post a slightly controversial entry I get a venomous comment under the anonymous banner which I try to reply politely to. But I never receive a reply back. I wonder why? It's just the same when someone emails you about a 'mistake' or whatever in one of your stories and you take the trouble to either thank them for pointing out the mistake or else explain why you wrote such and such a thing, and the result is the same. Nothing. Strange.

I did turn the LJ into a public forum once and it was really interesting but took a lot of time to run. I could make some people out because writing styles are difficult to disguise and anyway I could feel them on a subtle level (you'll understand what I mean) and others - Hee! Venom again. Hmm, with a fearful heart. To shread someone to pieces give a block in the heart chakra. I wish they wouldn't do it, they only harm themselves.

Anyway, thanks for the prose, Icarus, it was excellent. And Wilderness Guru probably sees all the stray animals about which perhaps irresponsible owners have unwittingly caused.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yes. That's his concern, not directed at anyone in particular. One of the fastest ways to outrage him is to talk about giving up a pet to the Humane Society, swiftly followed by anything regarding: kittens without homes, lost kitties, stray kitties from overpopulation, kitties abandoned by owners who move, ad infinitum.

Icarus