WG sighs in the background.
Jul. 17th, 2004 08:45 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icarus![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif){kind=small}
wildernessguru has this friend who... let's say he works in the outdoor industry and leave it at that. Well the friend has lots of political problems and wildernessguru has staunchly defended him for the last two years. They email every day, and he has really enjoyed the friendship.
Then
wildernessguru had a teeny criticism of something his friend was selling. He tested it out and said he "had some reservations about it." Now wildernessguru is an experienced backpacker, ex-Forest Service, Outward Bound, the whole nine yards. His friend knows this. His friend sent him a really nasty email in response, to the effect of 'you are not to tell me what you think, you are to do what I say. If you disagree with me then you must be ignorant.'
wildernessguru's answer was to say he was Shocked at the response, and he was firm but polite that it isn't realistic to assume that everyone needed the same thing and that he didn't have a right to even entertain reservations about his stuff. That he wasn't publicizing his issue, there's no reason to get defensive -- this was just a conversation between friends.His buddy broke off the friendship and demanded he mail the stuff back (he'd usually drop it off in person). He also said he'd refund WG's deposit for my stuff, and is basically refusing to work with WG ever again. This part really hurt WG.
Over a comment that WG made that he had reservations about one piece of gear.
wildernessguru is rather sad right now. I've read the emails back and forth, and his friend... it seems that he's come by his political problems honestly. After defending him all this time, I suddenly see the other side of the argument.ETA: The worst thing is, WG has no one to talk to about this because the man is well known in the industry and to do so would (further) hurt his reputation. So because WG is a good friend, he has to suffer in silence.
Any comments or support would be appreciated.
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Date: 2004-07-17 10:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 10:25 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 03:34 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 03:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 04:06 pm (UTC)Everyone's comments today have really helped me immensely. I just re-read my Email to my 'friend' (in my Sent items) and I still regret saying the part about "you (he) almost assume that this system is like God's creation for this respective product for the industry."
I feel badly for saying that and within the same Email I addressed other concerns of mine and even told him that in my original (1st) Email I had admitted to him that I needed to have done this one step looser.
His response was to SLAM the door on me, effectively treating me almost as badly as some of his previous customers.
He is always extremely busy and overbooked with orders months in advance(which the latter he complains about but never does anything to rectify it - like hire more people other than his GF) so I believe my tinny comment about his system set him off to such a degree that he overlooked the fact that:
A. I'm 'his' friend. And.....
B. This is just an observation of mine and is not a fucking outdoor magazine reviewing his product.
His 'system' is patented and is quite a bit different in useage than what's available but there is a big learning curve to it.
I'd wager to believe that most other people who use the other stuff for as long as I have (10+ years) that they encounter the 'same problem' as I have and make a comment about it or two which in turn he gets quite pissed off. So when I, a close friend, made a tinny comment about this respective system he simply BLEW UP!
It's all quite ludricious his response to me and border line childish if you ask me. But it still hurts me alot because we've been good friends and 'cause I'd like to get another product from him in thee future sometime.
WG
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Date: 2004-07-17 04:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 10:42 am (UTC)WG should drop it off in person, then. It's not like he'll be ruining the friendship by ignoring that request. It might be cathartic to risk an emotional scene. (Especially if mail costs more than visiting in person.) In fact, it makes more sense - WG can get a receipt for the stuff he returns and his deposit back at the same time. Who knows - maybe the equipement was defective and not design flawed.
I don't chose my friends by their politics - agreeable people can tolerate different opinions, and I find extremists irritating - but anyone who is "love me, love my water purifying kit" sounds a little too high maintenance for my circle of friends. He might be doing WG a favor by freeing up time for more comfortable associations.
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:32 am (UTC)agreeable people can tolerate different opinions, and I find extremists irritating
This cracked WG up.
"love me, love my water purifying kit"
Yeah. The reason it's such a sensitive issue that it's his own invention, has a patent and everything. But, man, it was a little comment. The last line of his email read: "Sorry if this sounds stern and to the point. Truth is, you don't have much to teach me about it and I don't need a review about it. You just need to learn to use it. How's that for kicking you in the nuts? "
Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:35 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:05 pm (UTC)Well, that's unnecessarily harsh. And if that's the attitude the guy takes toward his customers--"the product is fine; you're just an idiot"--he's not going to sell many of whatever it is. Word will get around even though WG is taking the high road, which is very good of him. (Incidentally, I'm insanely curious about the product, whether it's something I've used, but I understand you can't say.)
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:41 pm (UTC)Oh, it's custom, so it's very unlikely you have. He's the only one who makes it, you have to deal with him directly -- and quite frankly WG's experience is so common that if you've used it, you'd recognise who this is right away.
Word will get around even though WG is taking the high road, which is very good of him.
Yeah, word already has. That's why WG has needed to defend him so much. It's just... shocking... he'd bite his friends, too.
Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 04:25 pm (UTC)BTW, I'm not giving him the satisfaction of dumping me like the Sat. garbage. I'm going to drop by his place next week unannounced to return the product. He and I deserve better. He might be pissed, he might....... fuck, I don't know what he'll do, but I'm going to be nice and respectfull because I want no hard feelings between us. It'll be interesting indeed.
The good thing is, I've been using one of his fine products for the last three years which I really dig, thank heavens I have at least one, in case the relationship goes to the sewer! LOL
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 11:04 am (UTC)Hope you can distract WG with something nice while he's feeling so down.
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:19 am (UTC)Yeah, I took him to see Spiderman 2 last night, and er, well, other things. But he keeps blaming himself, thinking he may have been too blunt or said something wrong or - or - something. I've read the responses, and it's nothing that should have broken up a friendship.
Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:50 am (UTC)It is, isn't it? *g*
and er, well, other things
Good! I prescribe more of the same. :-)
he keeps blaming himself,
Bah! Rubbish. WG is good people, and doesn't deserve this nasty crap. ((hugs))
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-17 11:33 am (UTC)I hope the other bloke will realise his idiocy and try to make ammends.
Based on his track record, I fear it's unlikely.
Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:45 pm (UTC)Based on his track record, I fear it's unlikely.
That's honestly a pity. He obviously doesn't realise what sort of friend he's losing, then. At least
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:54 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 01:04 pm (UTC)Right here. It takes a while to load all the pictures on the new pages (especially on dial up), but it's a lot of fun to mess around with. :)
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Date: 2004-07-17 06:30 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 06:39 pm (UTC)Very nice, and I really like the background, too. :)
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Date: 2004-07-17 11:57 am (UTC)Also, while I wouldn't go around badmouthing the product, it's fair, course, to include that reservation when asked about it by another backpacker or whatever.
Also, if an opportunity presents itself, another avenue to patching things up could possibly be to say, yes, I did need to learn this, and it's fine that you disagree with my criticism. It is worth noting that if someone of my experience needed help using it right, you may want to see if anything sould be added in the instructions that would make it clearer (since I dunno what the issue is, that might not actually make sense. Anyway.)
I know all about going back and agonizing over my own words. I do this all the time. Sometimes I was wrong, but sometimes it's just there's nothing to fix. And hell, this is why I love email, because I would put my foot in my mouth on at least an hourly basis if I did all this communicating orally. Heh.
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Date: 2004-07-17 12:14 pm (UTC)I know all about going back and agonizing over my own words. I do this all the time. Sometimes I was wrong, but sometimes it's just there's nothing to fix. And hell, this is why I love email, because I would put my foot in my mouth on at least an hourly basis if I did all this communicating orally. Heh.
This made WG snicker. And then he says, "I should have called him on the phone maybe."
Thank you. He wants to talk about it, but not to anyone in the outdoor industry. Because his friend has a lot of critics, and it would just feed the fire.
Icarus
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Date: 2004-07-17 04:40 pm (UTC)This guy sounds like nothing more than an overinflated, self-important jerk and has proved through his actions that WG is a better person than he'll ever be.
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Date: 2004-07-18 12:53 am (UTC)LMAO!
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Date: 2004-07-17 09:51 pm (UTC)What a wanker. *telepathetic hug to WG*
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Date: 2004-07-17 10:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-18 12:19 am (UTC)But you know, I bet that he will realise "Hey,
That is what I think.
*hugs*
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Date: 2004-07-18 12:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-07-18 06:52 am (UTC)I think WG needs a nice hike today where the nosiest thing around is birdsong or maybe a nice breeze through the trees. Or, maybe ice cream and a cuddle.
People are just weird.
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Date: 2004-07-18 07:18 am (UTC)I don't have support, because all I can say is that he isn't a friend anymore. So I say WG should go on and talk about it.
Give him hugs for me?
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Date: 2004-07-18 11:27 am (UTC)