Nekosmuse is my new god.

[icarus]

amethyst_lupin pointed me in the direction of a great meta by nekosmuse The Ten Commandments of Fanfiction.

Thou shalt never use epithets. Oh, thankyouthankyouthankyou. If I never see Draco referred to 'the blond' or Ron called 'the redhead' again, it will be too soon.

Thou shalt use warnings. Oh, thankyouthankyouthankyou. I cracked open a fic the other day and halfway through it - Surprise! - was the rape scene. Ack. I still have that unpleasant image in my mind, and I'm glaring at author and never want to read them again.

I shalt not spoil the rest. Enjoy!

Comments

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I once did an incest fic. At least a couple of people complained because the warning took off the surprise of the central relationship. The poor frickin' writer is damned if s/he does, damned if s/he doesn't. Mind you, I think that your source was really aiming at bad writing, where offensive features become more offensive by being treated without respect (to use her instance, there is a rape scene and then someone else soothes the victim by taking him to bed in turn - which is not only grossly objectionable, but not at all credible). However, bad writing with an advisory is only bad writing with an advisory.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I think warnings are important, even though when I warn people for rape in Beg Me For It I know I'm losing a lot of readers who would otherwise like the story (since the rape doesn't actually occur), I don't want to yank people out of the story like that.

Things like rape, incest, chan, they shock and offend readers if they don't already know what they're getting into. The sense of shock is more than just moral offense: you actually lose the impact of the story. A writer needs empathy, communication with the reader. The reader steps into your little world, trusting you as a writer to not lead them astray. Allowing themselves to believe fiction, dropping their barriers.

A writing instructor once told me "never trick the reader." I didn't know why until I came across a story recently where all the facts presented in the story misled me. It deliberately led me to specific assumptions - and then the writer revealed their denouement. I was left with a bitter taste in my mouth. I did not feel the writer was clever, I felt deceived.

Not warning for offensive content is the same thing. The reader trusts you not to do that to them.

It's rarely beneficial to have the shocking content come as a surprise. Most good stories don't need that surprise to still work for the reader, and I'm not a fan of shock-value fiction, even though some friends of mine write it.

FYI, I'm just coming out of a big wankfest and I'm not really in the mood for an intense discussion. I've been doing so much of it for the last couple days.

Icarus

[kres.livejournal.com]

I'm just coming out of a big wankfest and I'm not really in the mood for an intense discussion. I've been doing so much of it for the last couple days.

*pets you and gives you cookies*

Seriously. I'm not joking here.

Wonder if this was an argument in that wankfest, though:

Did Shakespeare warn anyone before Titus Andronikus?

Just saying :)=

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, the wankfest revolved around law, copyright, plagiarism, morality, the etiquette of friends-locked posts, combat vs. support soldiers, military law vs. civilian law, venue and jurisdiction, the proper procedures to follow before filing a DCMA violation of copyright claim, natural law vs. historical jurisprudence, then pointing out the inaccuracies, hypocrisy, manipulation, and deceptiveness of the person presenting themselves as knowledgable on subjects they'd only learned from links on the internet, evaded direct questions, who eventually created a false journal mimicking the posts of the individual she was criticizing (copied the layout, picture, and entire threads) -- and then claimed to be her.

Wacko.

But she sounded stable when I started the argument, if determined to be right at all costs.

Did Shakespeare warn anyone before Titus Andronikus?

I have a better example: did Sophocles warn for incest in Oedipus Rex?

The answer for both stories is that they didn't need to: the themes were already (at the time) well-known. In fact, the authors drew upon this knowledge in order to heighten the irony and tension.

Icarus

[kres.livejournal.com]

Oh, the wankfest revolved around[...]

O.o <-- ah, my recent love for this icon

I have a better example

Heh, a better example indeed.

the themes were already (at the time) well-known

And isn't this so with that disclaimer stuff, that it is the sign of the times we live in? Warnings and disclaimers for adults. For mature, responsible people who watch where they tread and are able to make choices and learn from mistakes?

Saw a reality accident movie once. Got traumatized. Won't see any of those again.

Saw a Steven Seagal movie once, with a torture scene in it. Got traumatized. Won't watch Steven Seagal movies again.

That would be my choice. The trauma is also mine.

But I'm not made of sugar and I won't dissolve in the rain.

And now, for something completely different, because I don't want to start a discussion since you're tired of one:

Aliens? Lava? J/D? Ring any bells?

:)=

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

O.o

Ha. A wank of epic proportions. Last I looked it was up to 238 comments in one journal entry alone.

mature, responsible people who watch where they tread and are able to make choices and learn from mistakes?

Yes, that would be the case if we didn't have the convention of warning for certain types of content. Since we do, readers expect this.

I'll tell you though that I did have an incest fic where the opening would have been spoiled if I'd warned for it. I took a risk and wrote in the summary (on a site that has lots of sexual content at an R-rating) Adult subject matter. You have been warned.

It worked. That was enough for people. It helped that the incest was clear within the first page, so those who didn't like it hadn't made a commitment to the story yet. I don't think I would have done it if the incest appeared later.

Aliens? Lava? J/D? Ring any bells?

Oh yes. wildernessguru and I are going to watch a couple Stargate episodes to get me in the mood. But I've gone to bed every night thinking about the next scene, and I'm itching to write it.

I'm going to be good and do my homework first.

Icarus

[fpb.livejournal.com]

the wankfest revolved around law, copyright, plagiarism, morality, the etiquette of friends-locked posts, combat vs. support soldiers, military law vs. civilian law, venue and jurisdiction, the proper procedures to follow before filing a DCMA violation of copyright claim, natural law vs. historical jurisprudence, then pointing out the inaccuracies, hypocrisy, manipulation, and deceptiveness of the person presenting themselves as knowledgable on subjects they'd only learned from links on the internet, evaded direct questions
Sounds interesting. Almost wish I'd been there - I could have contributed some much-needed extra noise. 8-)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

It was interesting, or I wouldn't've kept writing. But now I'm very, very tired. Heh.

Icarus

[fpb.livejournal.com]

I came across a story recently where all the facts presented in the story misled me. It deliberately led me to specific assumptions - and then the writer revealed their denouement. I was left with a bitter taste in my mouth. I did not feel the writer was clever, I felt deceived.
I would like to be clearer about this. What you described seems akin to the sort of thing that would be regarded as a triumph in detective fiction, and that is the strength of Agatha Christie. Have you ever read her better novels? I ask because I would like to know in what way features that make her work so satisfying appear, in this experience, so disappointing. Where is the difference? I am really interested to know.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Bear in mind it's 3am here, but hopefully my answer will be coherent.

Different genres set the reader up for different expectations. In mystery, the reader knows they're supposed to hunt down clues, and they take great satisfaction in cleverly disguised hints and a plot they couldn't figure untangle.

In other genres such as romance, we expect to be able to trust the writer, so we take what they tell us at face value. So we feel like fools when the writer's sneaky.

It's interesting the cues that the writer uses to indicate the genre and set up the expectations of the reader.

Icarus

[fpb.livejournal.com]

Oh. Good night. Have a decent rest. You shouldn't have stayed up this long only to answer me!

[kres.livejournal.com]

bad writing with an advisory is only bad writing with an advisory

And that should be printed out and plastered onto monitors of fan fiction writers out there. And out here :)=

*goes to print and find duct tape*