The Growth of a Story

[icarus]

The Growth of a Story

Every now and then I get an incomprehensible email asking me "where do you get your stories?" Then last night someone said that I evade the predictable routes. It made me blink for a minute because I don't deliberately do so, the characters do that.

A few hours later, a Stargate story popped into my head (one that I probably won't write) and I stood outside it with these questions in mind and watched it germinate. Where do the ideas come from? And how is it that said story avoids the tried and true route?

I started with a smirking observation in Prometheus Unbound and Threads: "Hmm. Daniel really likes being restrained." Heck, I know what a guy looks like when he gets off on that sort of kink, the way he lights up and gets energized the moment the cuffs cinch tight. "Oh, it would be fun to write a story where Jack learns this about Daniel...."

A clip of dialogue came up, and an image of Jack's raised eyebrows and Daniel chained up.

Where would this happen? The image had Daniel already chained to a wall and Jack not releasing him, teasing him about this kink. But wait-! How the hell would that happen? And how is it that Jack would be there, but surprised that Daniel gets off on this?

Okay, hmm. So Daniel was chained up by someone else. A Goa'uld. So... why is Jack taking the time to tease him? He's awfully relaxed. And this image looks like the gateroom, or somewhere at the SGC. And how did Jack know that this turns Daniel on if this moment is the first he's heard of it?

Um... there are security tapes. And someone's told Jack. The Goa'uld (female).

But Goa'uld don't have security tapes. Okay, so it is at the SGC. And this Goa'uld has taken over the base. So... whoa... why is Jack so relaxed?

She's bargaining with him. She's not in contact with the system lords at all - in fact knows nothing about them - and she's decided to trade a chained up Daniel for... all of earth.

Clip of dialogue comes to mind. Jack negotiating with this Goa'uld. Jack's voice, "You want to trade me a boy toy --"

Daniel: "Hey!"

"Sorry -- for the whole planet?"

"The Goa'uld have traded entire worlds for less. Especially ones that have little value."

"Excuse me?"

"This planet has no naquadah or trinium, and it is also clear to me that you do not have the resources to control it. So it is of no use to you."

But why would she negotiate?

Suddenly, the message behind the story clicked. What it's really about.

This Goa'uld is from a new queen, has very little in the way of genetic memory and has never interacted with humans before ("this is going to take some serious plot-hole filler," I think). But the bottom line is that the Goa'uld don't think like humans and at first contact they assume that humans are just like themselves. Since Jack is in possession of a Stargate and some advanced technology, she negotiates with him as if he were a lesser Goa'uld in a very bad negotiating position. 'Have some glass beads and go away.' It doesn't even occur to her that the one in charge of the top technology wouldn't have dominion, or would feel a sense of emotional connection to the earth and to those he's responsible for. Goa'uld are opportunistic and never have a sense of home because they never even have their own independent body.

And Jack has to deal with a Goa'uld who's taken over the SGC but somehow has decided that instead of putting snakes in everyone's head, it wants to negotiate. Confused (but glad) he stalls, trying to buy time for (someone?) to get control of the base. He plays the cocky Goa'uld lordling -- and takes the time (also stalling) to razz Daniel about being turned on. Daniel of course has no clue what the plan is.

Image of a smirking and amused Jack waving a VHS tape in Daniel's face: "I have the tapes, Daniel."

"Could we not talk about this now?"

"Oh, the things we don't know about each other...."

"Jack."

Jack waves a hand in a broad gesture. "And to think of all the times in this galaxy we've been tied up, captured, and I never noticed."

"We were a little busy escaping at the time, which, um," he struggles, "by the way, shouldn't we be doing right about now?"

Jack smiles. "I think not." He rattles the tape, smug as he turns away. The Goa'uld guards part and stand at attention as the SGC doors slide open. "I'm going to savor these."

Daniel slumps in his chains with a frustrated sigh.


So there you have it. The creation of a story. That's how it generally works for me: I have an insane idea, usually a fuzzy image combined with dialogue. I dig until I find a "deeper meaning" to hang it all on. Then I spend the rest of the time playing and trying to fill in the huge gaping obvious plot holes that are the result of the fact that the idea was nuts from the start.

Yours truly,
Icarus

Comments

[kres.livejournal.com]

This is great :)=

The creation of the story around an idea. Ha. Inspiring. Oh, mind works in evil ways ;)=

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Thank you, and now I have the ending scene: Daniel's still chained to the wall, the SGC has been recovered, Sam's babbling about the Goa'uld, and Daniel asks plaintively:

"You didn't tell anyone about...?"

"Nah." Jack leans closer. "I just said you were a bad, bad boy." He grins. Then starts to walk towards the door.

"Wait -- hey! Let me down," Daniel demands.

"Very bad," Jack adds, sauntering up to the doorknob.

(I realize now that the base was captured because of Daniel's curiosity - somehow - and Jack's getting a little of his own back from Daniel... er. I'm not sure why. Something to do with that Goa'uld.)

Icarus

[moojja.livejournal.com]

I demand you start this story. :-) I'm taking a fiction class right now, and the way I write, is I start out with a sentence then go on from there.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*g* In order to write the post I had to stand pretty far outside the story, so that tends to kill stories as they develop.

I start out with a sentence then go on from there.

Oh that's interesting. They must start in a linear progression and build from there.

You probably don't have the problems I do with transitions. I often have pieces of story from all over the timeframe that I somehow have to figure out a way to string together. Instead of getting stuck on climactic scenes it's often the transitions that stall me.

Icarus

[moojja.livejournal.com]

LOL, when I say I start with one sentence I mean I write down one random sentence that sounds good to me. Then I write down another sentence that sounds good. The second sentence might or might not fit in the story. I start from the middle, and paint splatter my way to the end, and the beginning. Transitions come during the editing stage.

[http://users.livejournal.com/rantipole_/]

Thanks to both of you!

(becuse I usually plan in images, and try to work out some kind of logical plot to justify them, but the fic that ended up being the most popular? Just started writing -- no plan a-tall.)
(What's really good to hear is that other people use both methods!)

[prillalar]

Good post! I've been trying to do something similar -- observe and write down my process -- but I keep getting drawn in by the actual story thoughts and forget. *g*

Ideas are easy; stories are hard.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Yeah, I had to do it with a story I knew I was willing to not-write, otherwise you get drawn in too deeply. Generally by the time I'd hit the first line of dialogue I'd be scribbling it down, writing the outline, and desperately capturing the proliferating scenes before they escaped and vanished like soap bubbles.

Icarus

[tirica.livejournal.com]

Brilliant. I love to see how a writer's mind works, especially because I don't write myself due to lack of talent! This could have been a great story!! ;)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

This story has as many plotholes as Hathor. But Daniel chained to a wall is always enjoyable. ;)

Though now an epilogue has popped up... Jack and Daniel at Jack's place. Jack has donned a leather harness and poses for Daniel in a self-mocking way that ruins the entire effect.

"Meet your new master," he announces, arms spread.

Daniel chokes and finally manages, "Jack... you look...."

"Domineering? Hot?" Jack offers.

"'Ridiculous' is the word that comes to mind, actually."

Jack raises a forefinger. "Ah, wait till you see what I have in store for you." He plucks up a slip of vaguely leather material and wriggles it in front of Daniel's nose. Daniel frowns and takes it, holding it up. The size of a pair of kid's underwear but shaped like shorts, with two holes in the.... He stretches it.

"Um, no way is this going to fit."

"C'mon. Try it," Jack says, his head tipped in curiosity, his arms folded. He adds, "Strip." His voice has just a shred of a clipped command.

Daniel glances up at him sharply. But Jack is still smiling, though there's a calculating look in his eyes that Daniel isn't quite sure he can trust. Or should trust, that is.

Icarus

[cordelia_v]

This is interesting. I know someone else, too (meri_oddities who sometimes has a vision of one scene or gesture, and then works backwards from there, reasoning out the story that led to it.

I don't work that way; I'm far too rational-linear. Mostly, I start with what I would like to make happen between two characters, and then work out a plausible scenario to make it so. So, I wanted to think of a way to bring Percy and Snape together in a ficlet (to please you, if I write it) and came up with a funny scenario that is canon-plausible.

That's why I'm a rather pedestrian fic writer, I think. My method keeps everyone IC and produces a plausible plot. But it can never lead to moments that surprise and gratify the reader, telling her something she didn't know about those characters, as your way does. Your way can take things out of the accustomed fanon grooves.

But you know . . . you take me too seriously. Nothing that I say in chat after midnight is worth wasting two seconds thought on.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

But you know . . . you take me too seriously. Nothing that I say in chat after midnight is worth wasting two seconds thought on.

Oh no, this was great fun. It tied in neatly with a review where someone asked me that "where do you get your stories" question.

But it can never lead to moments that surprise and gratify the reader, telling her something she didn't know about those characters, as your way does.

I wouldn't say that. If your end situation is complicated or unusual than it most certainly will.

Icarus

[miladyhawke.livejournal.com]

Thank you, thank you. You have no idea how helpful it was to see someone else's thought processes mapped out like that! *g*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh hey, you're welcome. This was quite fun. :D

Icarus

[corvidae9.livejournal.com]

Neil Gaiman's answer is "Abracadabra". :))) Have you read Smoke and Mirrors?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Neil is a smart-ass. ;)

Icarus

[theemdash]

That was truly excellent. . .

And make me feel more sane. ;)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

The theory of relativity does apply to relative levels of lunacy. And that's a comforting thought. ;)

Icarus

[tafkarfanfic.livejournal.com]

THat's roughly how it works for me, too, but I couldn't break it down that clearly, I don't think.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

It varies so much from fic to fic. Sometimes a whole story is there and it's almost like taking dictation from the sky.

Other times I have a scene, that's it, and I keep hammering away and making it work, laying each part like bricks on the last, hoping it doesn't feel artificial and stupid.

Icarus

[cats-are-snakes.livejournal.com]

Interesting post. I like to hear other people's thought processes; it brings me understanding.

I am also amused by the storyline you presented. I don't read SG1 fanfic because most of it is so OOC. Yours seems plausible. I can completely see Jack taunting Daniel about a sexual issue. The problem is most authors then make the leap into Jack & Daniel as a pairing. WOULD NOT HAPPEN, EVAH! They are both too professional. They are both too obviously strait (although I can see Daniel being more likely to have "explored" than Jack).

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Well, Michael Shanks (who plays Daniel) in the commentary to Fallen says: "the relationship between Jack and Daniel is a combination of bizarre non sequitors and unrequited homosexual tension."

So the actors see the sexual tension between the two of them, it's not something the fanfic writers invented.

Icarus

[cats-are-snakes.livejournal.com]

The key I see here is "unresolved."

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Which is what fanfic is always about: resolving the unresolved. How many fanfics are there about rebuilding the robot doubles of SG-1?

The only way any fanfic can be 100% canon is to quote canon, line for line. Only the word for that is plagiarism.

Look, I'm working on a Gen Black!Ops Jack story that you'll probably like (it's about why Jack joined the Air Force Special Operations and is being written in conjunction with wildernessguru, a military analyst), and I have maybe one or two non-slash fics around here somewhere... but this is a slash journal.

Check out the list of recs I just posted. That'll tell you if there's anything for you here. I think some of them are Gen.

Icarus

Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, oh! I have two Gen Stargate Jack and Daniel stories you'll absolutely love. Jack and Daniel are straight in both, they're both funny, and both deal with other people getting the "wrong impression."

Asked (http://chelle.slashcity.org/Stargate/Asked.htm) by Chelle

Dining Out (http://www.stargatefan.com/fictiondj/Dining_Out.htm) by Sid.

By the way, I ran into this objection to slash in the Lord of the Rings fandom quite a bit.

OOC has to do with characterization. Not plot.

You can say that a slash plot-line is implausible, and that's a fair and reasonable opinion. But you can't say with any accuracy that it's "out of character." Whenever people use that line it just tells me that they don't see the difference between characterization and plot. Characterization is a matter of getting the character voice, their mannerisms and so forth down.

I've seen excellent characterization in the middle of the most ridiculous plot-lines. I read this Elrond/Boromir piece that had excellent characterization -- it sounded like both of them, they acted like both of them -- but I could not buy that Elrond would ever be attracted to and sleep with Boromir.

Now I may think that Elrond getting turned on while watching Boromir fight is a characterization issue. It is an emotional reaction, is it not? But in a slash story the slash is the plot. Opening a slash story is like opening a sci-fi story: if you don't believe in spaceships you're not going to buy the plot. You're not willing to engage in the suspension of disbelief that the story requires. No matter how excellent the characterization is, you mind will reject it as mischaracterized, i.e., "I don't believe that an intelligent, long-term soldier like this Colonel O'Neill would ever set foot in anything remotely resembling a Stargate. It's out of character." What that really says is that you like the soldier Jack O'Neill and reject the plot.

If the characterization is good and the plot-line unacceptable, most people will call that moment he steps through the Stargate OOC. Because they've bought the character -- up until that moment, which is jarring. It's jarring because of the good characterization. When the characterization comes together with a plot you don't believe -- wham! It throws you right out of the story. It feels like mischaracterization. It feels like a trick in fact, you feel cheated (if it's a good writer with a "bad" plot twist) and frustrated. But the slash in most slash stories is important enough to be part of the essential premise.

It's plot. Not characterization. The characterization is only a means.

Icarus

Re: Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[cats-are-snakes.livejournal.com]

Um, I am somewhat disconcerted that you made the assertion that I cannot understand the difference between characterization and plot. I do feel that plot lines with slash between Daniel and Jack are likely to stretch the characters. Not to say it couldn't happen; your idea for a story demonstrates that there could be sexual situations between the two that are absolutely in character. There are others that would also be.

However, on the SG1 I watch, I do not feel it likely that Jack qua Jack and Daniel qua Daniel would fall into bed together. Yes, I've read fics in fandoms with way-out-there plots in which the characters behave in character, assuming I ignore that those characters would never put themselves into that situation. I guess I'm just not interested in suspending my disbelief that far. But as I said, I don't read SG1 fanfic for that reason.

There are other genres I don't like for the same reason. Crime shows featuring lawyers are the biggie. I'm a lawyer, and I cannot suspend my disbelief to accept the bs required by many plots. Considering some of the cases I've seen/heard about from my friends (in which I've come to realize that truth is stranger than fiction), I still can't accept much of what even professional screen/tv writers toss out.

I'm not completely comfortable with much of what goes on in fanfic. Many of the stories are terrific and there are some great writers out there. I think it would be better to do some of the stories as original fiction (or creation of an AU) rather than require suspension of disbelief with regard to cannon.

Re: Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm just not interested in suspending my disbelief that far.

Exactly. You don't want to, and given stories are a matter of personal taste that's perfectly reasonable.

I wouldn't introduce a friend who hates sci-fi to Stargate either. It would be a waste of time and really annoying to hear them tear into it: "No way would the military have such a thing" and "C'mon, ghouls with glowing eyes, I can't believe you watch this shit."

rather than require suspension of disbelief with regard to cannon.

All fanfic is taking canon and extrapolating from there. Since Michael Shanks has made it clear that the sexual tension is a large part of the canon interaction between Jack and Daniel, there's no difference between extrapolating other SGC adventures -- or the further missions of their robot doubles -- and extrapolating from that sexual tension.

No difference. All fanfic sits between the lines of canon, without exception.

That said... you are aware that I've written over a hundred slash stories in three fandoms, aren't you? That other than my politcs and personal stuff the primary purpose of this journal is slash? Granted, I usually integrate slash into a larger context so I've had people who hate slash still like my stories, but still.

Because I'm starting to get the impression you're like the straight guy who wandered into a gay bar on a slow Wednesday night: yes, you can get a drink here, but you may not like what else is coming your way.

I do recommend and read SG-1 Gen, but it is mostly Jack/Daniel slash.

Consider me the helpful bartender leaning over the counter with a funny look as I swab the counter with a checkered towel. I push the drink in your direction and ask, "You sure this is the place you want?"

Icarus

Re: Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[cats-are-snakes.livejournal.com]

I don't agree that all fanfic is "taking canon and extrapolating from there." Most, yes. AU fanfic involves making a change to canon and interpreting from there. I've also read author's pieces "from the cutting room floor." Is that canon? The original author wrote it. Looks like canon. It got cut from the final work, though. Not canon for me, though. What I consider it to be is a very reliable look into the character's motivations.

I do not have a generalized problem with slash. I have a problem accepting a lot of the slash stories related to SG1. I have less of a problem with slash in relation to Harry Potter because, in the case of most of the people the slash is about, their sexuality is completely undiscussed in the books/movies.

I cannot recall what made me wander into your journal. I enjoyed this particular post very much; it is a great insight into thinking through a story. I don't always read your stories. I'll follow the link, and if it appears to be something that doesn't interest me, I don't read it. If that is not the kind of response you want from someone who has listed you as a friend, then I will remove you. Not intended in any rude fashion. As you know, there are many people on LJ and other fanfic communities that don't want to hear anything contrary or won't make the effort of being polite in disagreement. You have been quite polite to me. I hope you believe I'm being polite to you.

Occasionally, I will read a work to expand my boundaries. How else can I learn if I like it? I've read a number of things I wouldn't usually read, including an absolutely awful (deliberately awful) furry smut story. I still laugh about it. In general, however, I don't read furry smut.

If you have recs for SG1 stories that are so adherent to canon that they could be filmed as an alternate season episode, that's what I like (in SG1). I also like to read interpretations of character motivations, which are usually short works. In case you haven't guessed, I don't read huge amounts of fanfic. I read more original fic or non-fiction. Makes me dull, I guess.

Re: Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I do not have a generalized problem with slash.

Good. I'll tell you now that I was originally in the Lord of the Rings fandom, which draws a very religious crowd because of the sweeping larger-than-life themes and the biblical tone of The Silmarillion. While I've had many enjoyable discussions, slash was a real sticking point.

The discussion predictably would start with the assertion that slash in their beloved Lord of the Rings was "OOC" and counter to canon. (Anyone who mentioned Sam's paeans of love to Frodo was sure to get a disgusted, angry response.)

Then as I dug a little further, it would become clear that slash was always OOC, for any fandom.

With a couple mentions of shows with gay characters (or say the Oz fandom) I would discover that not only was slash OOC, always, but that shows that had gay characters were "sick." Or perverted. Or amoral.

Pretty soon, unabashedly I might add, I would be treated to a lecture on how homosexuality was a sin, or a crime against nature.

Eventually we would get down to a quote or two from Leviticus. Which, tiredly, having been down this route many, many times, I knew was coming from the moment the "OOC" and "against canon" argument was introduced.

After pointing out that I in fact was Buddhist (weirdly rendered okay for them by the fact that my parents are Buddhist) I would crack open my bible -- given to me by a lesbian couple; let's pause to enjoy the irony for a moment.

Then I would ask about a few other points made in Leviticus, such as the proper way to sacrifice a calf.

Like I said, I'd been down this road before.

This would be met with a blast of fury unknown since Moses smashed the tablets of the ten commandments and threw down the golden calf. Every Christian on the forum (and there were quite a few) would hear the dismay and join in to what was just shy of a brawl, as I sat quietly by waiting for the dust to clear or the moderator to step in.

Forgive me, but I've had this argument so often there is a trail worn between my computer and the bookcase where the bible is tucked away.

If you were one of these then yes, you would have been... unhappy here.

This is my journal and I have no qualms about booting people out who appear to be here for the sole purpose of attacking me or other people commenting in my journal. I reserve the right to abuse my power, partially because I enjoy exercising it so very much. Though I've only had to do so twice: once with a highly conservative Catholic who was attacking my flist (intelligently at first, but after the third person it was clear he was trolling), and another time with someone who only commented to start fights (even though she was nice to me). It was so satisfying to be rid of them: I visualized it as a field goal, the culprit sailing between the two goalposts.

Sorry, I didn't mean to wax poetic there. It was just such a beautiful sight.

I'm sure you're fine though. I don't see you as a troll, and I like animated discussion.

I have a problem accepting a lot of the slash stories related to SG1.

Oh yeah, there are certain pairings in Harry Potter that I just can't swallow. But the difference between AU and standard fanfic is that the AU goes against expressed canon.

I think the question is: can guys like Jack or Daniel have long-standing relationships with women (marriage, kids, the works) and other relationships with women on the show, sleep with men? The answer is: affirmative. Absolutely. I'm in a relationship now with a man who's slept with more men than I have. So their heterosexuality is not canon. Michael Shanks' comments make that even more vividly clear.

The other question is: would Jack or Daniel cross the line, given their professional relationship, regulations, the risks? That's debatable. But because it's debatable it's open to fanfic and is not a canon issue.

Icarus

Re: Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[cats-are-snakes.livejournal.com]

I am very sorry if I gave the impression that I am anti-gay/lesbian. Ack! My understanding of the Christian bible (I'm Jewish) is that it is silent on homosexuality. Dead silent. Yes, I know how modern christians take biblical verse out of context. I'm also unhappy with the literal reading many people give it. A friend of mine (dare I say it, she's bi?) just sent me a great link to a historical discussion of the bible and Jesus himself. It's in my lj under yesterday's date. If christians like those you mentioned would read that, they would have better things to flip out about. Their knickers would never un-knot.

I do not feel homosexuality is always OOC. After all, I acknowledge that Daniel would probably be open to experimentation - just about any type of experimentation from men to groups to drugs to other (non-humanoid) species. That's just Daniel. I'm less likely to see it with Jack.

Eep! I also appologize if I came off like some fundamentalist freak or person out to pick fights. Not my intention, I assure you. It's becoming increasingly difficult to find someone that will even listen to a difference of opinion. To find someone that will actually discuss the basis of their opinions/beliefs/thought processes is solid gold. Thank you for being one.

As for LotR weirdos attaching Christian ideals, just ew. I have always viewed elves in particular as somewhat fluid in their sexuality. They are immortal! Different taboos pass, elves remain. They've seen it all. Why not try it? If someone is willing to suspend their disbelief far enough to believe that a ring holds a soul (or whatever) and controls people, I think they could suspend it far enough to imagine a world not based on christianity. Since there was a recent hoo-ha in the newspaper about the evil, satanist exhibit at a local gallery - and the exhibit included Voodoo/Vodun imagery - I know many people simply can't.

As a Jew born a Jew and living in the bible belt, I am always interested to hear about the experiences of other non-christians in western society. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm going strait to hell - according to your kinder, gentler Christian god. Achmed, and he's from Florida, has some predictably appalling things to say. Grace, too; she was born and raised Wiccan. If I ever convert, it will be to Buddhism. It makes a lot of sense.

Re: Do you mind if I get on a soapbox?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, this response was a relief. I've a lot of real life "stuff" happening lately, so I haven't time for a real response. Instead I've found a story you might like (might) that I'm in the process of reading right now. Totally canon thus far, non-slash SG-1:

Dessert Son (http://www.fanfic.otherplaces.net/desert_son.htm)

Hope you like.

Icarus