Did I say the US military should leave Iraq gradually? Let me revise that opinion.

[icarus]

Did I say we should pull out of Iraq gradually? Never mind. If this is the shit we're doing over there we need to get out now.

Italian news report to be aired: US military used Napalm MK77 and white phosphorous as chemical weapons on Fallujah civilians.

White phosphorous is usually used to illuminate targets, but apparently the US military dumped large quantities of it on people, causing bizarre effects: clothing untouched while flesh was melted down to the bone. The report is taken from former US military personnel and eyewitness accounts from Fallujah residents.

wildernessguru, military analyst says: "What the fuck do we think we're doing over there?" He wants to know if anyone on my f-list is going to see this broadcast.

It's being broadcast in Italy today: Fallujah. La strage nascosta [Fallujah, The Concealed Massacre] will be shown on RAI News tomorrow November 8th at 07:35 (via HOT BIRDTM statellite, Sky Channel 506 and RAI-3), and rebroadcast by HOT BIRDTM satellite and Sky Channel 506 at 17:00 [5 pm] and over the next two days.

Comments

[sharp-tongue.livejournal.com]

Holy fuck.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

A little more info from WG:

The article is confused about the difference between conventional, unconventional, and chemical weapons. He's says he understands why they're mixing up their terminology -- it's a left-leaning article -- but he has some corrections:

Unconventional weapons = generally means things like nuclear weapons

Conventional weapons = mortar shells, artillery, etc.
White phospherous and Napalm are both conventional weapons. All bombs have chemicals in them.

Chemical weapons = gas weapons, such as mustard gas.

Biological weapons = things like anthrax

White Phospherous is used in mortar bombs, howitzer rounds, artillery shells, and WP bombs. It's also used in unguided rockets as a warhead.

At night it's used for illumination, particularly with aircraft for target marking, where you shoot a rocket at a target -- then the warhead explodes and gives off a lot of smoke and light. The pilot can then follow up with high explosive ordinance or what-have-you.

It's normal to use white phospherous. WG wonders if they used it as a cluster bomb? Or possibly set it up as an airburst weapon (where it just explodes in the air and rains down)? He says as far as he knows all WP bombs are completely indescriminate, i.e., unguided = freefall = civilian casualities (especially in a built-up neighborhood. WG quote: "fuckin' A. That's outrageous.")

The injuries they describe sound like they could have come from the heat of the white phospherous. (Anyone hit directly would have been incinerated.) That's why there were burns without burning their clothes. It's magnesium-based and burns super-hot then goes out in a second.

WG's horrified they'd use napalm in a civilian neighborhood. (If they did, he's not entirely convinced that it happened since Italy's president is desperate to be re-elected and the biggest obstacle to his campaign is his former support of the war in Iraq.)

Napalm is a completely indescriminate weapon. The description of MK77 from fas.org (Federation of American Scientists: Military Analysis Network) (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/mk77.htm):

The containers of napalm bomber are very light and fabricated of aluminum, with a capacity for about 75 gallons of combustible gel. They lack stabilizing fins, and consequently acquire a tumbling motion on being dropped that contributes to the scattering of the combustible gel over a wide area.

If used around civilians there is no possible way to avoid high innocent casualties. WG: "If they used napalm, whoever gave that order should be shot."

The article here downplays the use of MK77, so I'm not sure if was used, or if the military is just accused of using it. WG suspects that the US military was unable to sort the civilians from the insurgents in Fallujah, so they said "fuck it" and treated everyone as combatants.

Icarus

[alafairnadia.livejournal.com]

it's time to declare victory and pull out. this whole war is a stupid disaster. I'm so sick and concerned for both the people in Iraq and all of the soliders involved in this.
and hey -- aren't we in a war in Afghanistan?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Murtha has definitively made it clear that it's time to leave Iraq. Wow. Have you read his entire speech?

Transcript of Rep. John Murtha's speech calling for a complete redeployment of U.S. troops in Iraq (http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=5393).

Icarus

[dr-jasley.livejournal.com]

not sure if this is what you are looking for or if your computer will play it but...

http://www.rainews24.rai.it/ran24/inchiesta/video/fallujah_ING.wmv

*found in a comment from the community 'Above Top Secret'*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Thank you. Unfortunately I haven't been able to play it.

Have you read John Murtha's entire speech on withdrawing troops from Iraq (http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=5393)? It's... wow. A lot more than what the media covered.

Icarus

[ishie]

Have you heard any more on this? We've been following it at teh board, but all the reports are from the same source or from bloggers.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping that the European papers will pick up the story and verify/disprove it.

Icarus

[ishie]

There's a US-based blog that talks about it today -- mainly saying that the use of WP in Fallujah was already known. It's right-wing-biased, but has information about WP and the relevant ban treaties as well as some contemporary reports of the Fallujah incident. FWIW.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/12607

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

It's the use of napalm that WG finds hard to believe -- and shocking if true. We just had a conversation and quickie education on conventional vs. chemical weapons, WP vs. HE (http://www.livejournal.com/users/icarusancalion/433062.html), and looked up information on the MK77 napalm (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/mk77.htm) (which apparently is "sticky" in a way the old napalm wasn't).

Icarus

[vichka.livejournal.com]

If I believed in a power of prayer, I would pray.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Even if you don't, it can't hurt.