The Myth of the Dying Fandom
May. 3rd, 2006 10:31 amThe Myth of a Dying Fandom
There've been quite a few posts in the Harry Potter fandom lately about how it's dying, or declarations isn't dying, or that it needs to be revitalized, etc., etc. I think a lot of people have set the dying fandom myth to rest, but to add my two cents...
I receive several reviews a week on Harry Potter stories I wrote upwards of three years ago. Beg Me For It is being translated into Russian for Fanrus, a site that features Huge numbers of Harry Potter Russian translations. I was recently sent several gorgeous pieces of fanart. Given the last full-length HP fic I wrote was The Metronome in January, and I haven't been stirring the cauldron posting stories everywhere, that sounds like a pretty lively fandom to me.
When a group of authors discussed fanfiction on Making Light, most of the fanfiction writers who turned up wrote Harry Potter.
Now I have noticed that the HP authors I've followed for years haven't been posting a lot of fic. There seems to be a multi-fandom fad going around. I'm no different. Right now I don't have any HP stories burbling on the stove. I did burn out after 130 HP stories, and I was counting on Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince to restart my engines.
Instead, I find I'm holding my breath.
The book was a cliffhanger and I'm not one of those people who like to fill in what I think the ending's going to be. I don't shake my Christmas presents either. I like to be surprised. I've always been canon-centric in Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter (we'll not mention what I do to canon in Stargate Atlantis). So instead of filling in the ready-made holes of canon, I find myself faced with a story that's... incomplete. I don't want to tie up the loose ends or finish anything off for JKR. I want to see what she does.
This is not a dying fandom. This is a fandom on the edge of a cliff, silently breathless, waiting for the fireworks to begin.
I predict an explosion of fanfiction after JKR's final book.
There've been quite a few posts in the Harry Potter fandom lately about how it's dying, or declarations isn't dying, or that it needs to be revitalized, etc., etc. I think a lot of people have set the dying fandom myth to rest, but to add my two cents...
I receive several reviews a week on Harry Potter stories I wrote upwards of three years ago. Beg Me For It is being translated into Russian for Fanrus, a site that features Huge numbers of Harry Potter Russian translations. I was recently sent several gorgeous pieces of fanart. Given the last full-length HP fic I wrote was The Metronome in January, and I haven't been stirring the cauldron posting stories everywhere, that sounds like a pretty lively fandom to me.
When a group of authors discussed fanfiction on Making Light, most of the fanfiction writers who turned up wrote Harry Potter.
Now I have noticed that the HP authors I've followed for years haven't been posting a lot of fic. There seems to be a multi-fandom fad going around. I'm no different. Right now I don't have any HP stories burbling on the stove. I did burn out after 130 HP stories, and I was counting on Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince to restart my engines.
Instead, I find I'm holding my breath.
The book was a cliffhanger and I'm not one of those people who like to fill in what I think the ending's going to be. I don't shake my Christmas presents either. I like to be surprised. I've always been canon-centric in Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter (we'll not mention what I do to canon in Stargate Atlantis). So instead of filling in the ready-made holes of canon, I find myself faced with a story that's... incomplete. I don't want to tie up the loose ends or finish anything off for JKR. I want to see what she does.
This is not a dying fandom. This is a fandom on the edge of a cliff, silently breathless, waiting for the fireworks to begin.
I predict an explosion of fanfiction after JKR's final book.
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Date: 2006-05-03 06:49 pm (UTC)I expect there are those who will move on, after canon is finished, but I hope plenty people will stay. The Tolkien fandom is lively, and he stopped writing over 30 years ago. Star Wars carried on in the gap between the first trilogy and the prequels, and now it seems that Lucas is finished, it's still going strong. Even when canon is complete, there's always AU and missing scenes, and other stuff.
Of course, when I leave, that will be the finish... I expect you feel the same... *spluttercough*
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Date: 2006-05-04 07:39 pm (UTC)LOL!
I guess people see a fic plateau and some BNFs wandering off. But rumors of the demise of HP have been greatly exaggerated.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-03 06:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-07 02:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-03 07:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-04 09:50 am (UTC)Thanks for the link!
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Date: 2006-05-04 07:41 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-03 07:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-04 07:43 pm (UTC)Icarus
Personally, I think the "fandom is dying" is a bit over the top
Date: 2006-05-03 07:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-03 08:10 pm (UTC)I also think that that's part of the problem... because the people complaining are the oldbies, and they don't see the familiar faces around as much as they used to. People grow up, move on, discover new fandoms (says she of the SEVEN fandoms and counting) and it's all a part of fandom life. There's new people around these days, and some of them are great! It just seems like we need a new überfic or something, but instead it's like you said, everyone is abstaining at the very least from the central themes because damn right we're holding our breaths.
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Date: 2006-05-03 08:10 pm (UTC)i'd have to agree with you here. in all honesty, i don't believe that the HP fandom is "dying" so much as a number of people were thrown for a world-class loop by the events in HBP. it seems to me that quite a few of the younger authors (fanfiction.net, for example) have lost interest or are trying to insist that AU fics where sirius/dumbledore aren't dead, or where harry never got together with cho/ginny, or any number of canon facts just aren't true. now i'm not saying that AU fics are bad! far far from it... but there was a decided dip in the fluffy and micro fics after the last two books.
what's funniest to me -- i loved the last two books more than the first four. but then, they loaded me up with a ton of ammunition against dumbledore, whom i didn't much like or trust from the start *lol* this has caused a bit of a civil war at home, naturally. my mother worships dumbledore and hates snape with a passion. my daughter is tepid about them both, but was furious with the harry/ginny subplot. and my son, bless him, just wanted there to be more fight scenes.
so, is the HP fandom dying? i give it a resounding NO!
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Date: 2006-05-03 08:26 pm (UTC)And I still get a review or two every now and then as well. I've only written and posted five.
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Date: 2006-05-03 09:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-03 09:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-03 11:54 pm (UTC)I personally find its not so much that "fandom is dying" which it obviously isn't, considering the writing and art which is still being produced and such, but more the fact, from my perspective is that my corner of fandom is vanishing.
Most of the people that I had friended have jumped to the PoT fandom. Basically, my flist has mutated into PoT with the only HP fandom references coming from Hogwarts Today. It seems all the BNF's from my area all just jumped ship.
Which would be another reason why McTabby's FFF has taken off so well again. Everyone from this sideb of fandom that is still here has basically lost their fandom with so many friends jumping ship. We need to find the new people so as to reclaim our fandom.
PS: Im not trying to dis the PoT people, I love and am friends with quite a few, just pointing out the facts.
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Date: 2006-05-04 07:52 pm (UTC)What's taken over my f-list seems to be Stargate Atlantis and House (with a soupcon of CSI, Pros, and other fandoms). I suppose people need to something while they're holding their breath. I'm not sure that it means they won't be back. It's possible, but I do count HP as an addictive substance.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 12:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-05 01:13 am (UTC)She probably did, didn't she? *grumbles in an amused undertone*
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 12:54 am (UTC)I agree with you completely. I await 2007 (or whenever the release is) with both dread and anticipation. :I
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Date: 2006-05-05 01:13 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 02:46 am (UTC)People have probably said, but I've never heard why exactly everyone thinks the fandom is dying, it's just, "OMG, the fandom is dying!" I think people are forgetting that there was this kind of slowdown several months after OotP was released as well.
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Date: 2006-05-04 08:19 pm (UTC)but I've never heard why exactly everyone thinks the fandom is dying
My understanding is that there are three factors intersecting. People are noticing their f-lists are full of other fandoms when they friended people solely for HP. I've had a few 'huh-what?' moments myself.
Then, certain long-standing HP writers have wandered off/stopped writing HP/stopped writing fanfic. There was a poll, and the reasons varied. Some were writing original fic. Some were annoyed with the HP fandom. Some had personal situations that didn't allow the same amount of online time (children, jobs). Others just lost interest. There may be a natural limit to how long one can sustain an obsession and a lot of these people had been writing HP for over four years.
Then there was a rather vague assertion that there was less fic being produced or that it was of lower quality. That one I have trouble buying. I'm thinking that we just need to find the next generation of BNFs, that there may be a changing of the guard right now, but our friendings haven't kept up.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 02:50 am (UTC)And then I read HBP and something just died in me, like I had suddenly got fandom bipolar from reading the book. I think part of it stems from the fact HBP was much more different to the other books, and partly because HBP is the second last book, and lastly I had exhausted myself in fandom.
Now for nearly a year, my involement in fandom has slowed down drastically, my creative flare is hidding, my muse, escaped with it. So I'm only creating art a max couple of times a month.
However my interest in fandom has only started to bubble again in the last week, so it's good news.
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Date: 2006-05-05 01:12 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-05 03:30 am (UTC)I think also there's that sense of "I want to make something of myself, and if I can't do that in RL, I might as make it here online." So for some people they want to strive further, and better themselves in a virtual community.
I know, that I've certainly inproved in my writing and in my Art skills much more, because I've pushed myself to create a higher standard seeing all the fab work around me.
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Date: 2006-05-04 07:41 am (UTC)Dying? Not by a long shot. In a different stage of life, no longer the exuberant adolescent? Very likely.
I had a very different reaction to the latest two books than a lot of people, I guess - my interest in HP fandom hit its nadir after OotP, and I loved HBP enough that it gave me a bit of a resurgence, probably because it had a level of horror and mystery that haunts me still. (I skip all that teen romance stuff but I will read that chapter with Harry and Dumbledore and the potion over and over until it doesn't horrify me anymore, which may be a long time coming).
And yeah. I'm holding my breath too. If I love her ending, I hope to go back to minor characters and gap-fillings and AU smut, and if I hate it I hope to, y'know, rage against the dying of the light.
Of course, obviously I am open to being seduced away by other fandoms too...hoo boy, am I...but I don't consider myself to have left HP per se. (Isn't there usually some drama and at least one temporary journal deletion involved? Not my style.)
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Date: 2006-05-05 12:46 am (UTC)What if we're seeing a side effect of fandom shifting from Yahoo Groups to LJ?
Think about it. In Yahoo Groups the faces always changed but the fandom kept churning on. Yet in LJ, your fandom needs are not met by the group (and the fic pouring through) but the individual LJs. Communities don't have the same mix of personal and fandom interaction.
Most of the shift occurred in 2002-2003. People are looking at their f-lists, people they've grown attached to and who serve as their main source of fic. There has now been about three years for their f-lists to display...
*drumroll please as I coin a new term*
Fandom drift.
You open your f-list and you start seeing... what? CSI? Who? House? WTF? Prince of Tennis? And why is everyone writing Stargate Atlantis, anyway?
The fandom's just fine. It's your friendslist that's experienced (stand back, here comes that term again)...
Fandom drift. I am inordinately proud of that, because I think HP is as big as a tectonic plate.
This may also have a side effect of centering the fandom on individuals and stars rather than the latest fic. What do you think?
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 07:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-05 12:35 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 10:42 am (UTC)I don't think we're a dying fandom, but I think we've grown a lot of grudges, and there's competition. Harry/Draco shippers think only Harry/Snape fics get read, Harry/Snape shippers think only Harry/Draco fics get read, Harry/Hermione shippers think Ron/Hermione shippers are hotheads, Ron/Hermione shippers tihnk Harry/Hermione shippers don't really read the books... shall I go on?
The other problem is that HBP tied up so many loose ends already. Before OoTP, there was a LOT more to work with. After OoTP, less. But after HBP... heck, the book even changed the way I look at characters. It also, for me, ruined several plot ideas. I had a long withstanding DADA teacher for the Maraudera era, and Andromeda was the ultimate Heir of Grimmauld Place (I still think the "Sirius was the oldest son" makes no sense - he. was. dis. owned. But I'm sure I'm just missing something... maybe JKR'll explain someday).
The site has made stuff harder too. Anyone wanting to write a Sirius fic where he had a Significant Other can't. Anyone making Alice Longbottom Harry's Godmother can't. Fics with Neville/Luna and with the Prewett brothers were possibly destroyed.
So now we also have to consider this: more could be changed. It suddenly makes it harder to write.
After the seventh book... it could go two ways. There may be too many tied up things for there to be a good amount of fics. OR, there will be so many loose ends, like the end of GoF, that fic explodes.
Sorry if this was too long.
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Date: 2006-05-04 08:04 pm (UTC)A couple questions: which site do you mean? The last pieces I wrote were Gen, so I haven't run afoul of any TOS changes anywhere.
This could be a result of my writing fanfic for a TV show, but doesn't canon joss storylines all the time? I mean, I would have to work really hard to write Snape Manor now. It's the trade-off between writing something where the canon is incomplete but the interest is high.
As for grudges, the great thing about being a huge fandom is that the institutional memory of grudges is lost like a penny in the ocean. For individuals it's a problem, but I don't think it's a problem for the fandom as a whole.
After the seventh book... it could go two ways. There may be too many tied up things for there to be a good amount of fics. OR, there will be so many loose ends, like the end of GoF, that fic explodes.
I agree, but don't forget the "rebellion" fics: if JKR kills Snape, he will live on relentlessly in fandom.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-04 01:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-05 12:33 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-05 05:07 am (UTC)So perhaps it's the fact that the fandom is so large and spread out that it appears to be diminishing for some people. The communication train is just breaking down. In some ways I do miss the old Yahoo Groups days ... but there also seems to be a higher content of quality fanfic (if you keep up with what the new hot communities are, which can be a little difficult) now that the fandom has largely switched over to LJ.
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Date: 2006-05-05 12:13 am (UTC)There's just too much going on. We can't see the forest for the trees.
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Date: 2006-05-05 12:29 am (UTC)Maybe we're also looking at the nature of a fandom that's largely moved from Yahoo Groups (in 2002-2003) to Livejournal and friendings.
If it's a Yahoo Group, people come and go, but the group itself can stay active even as the faces change. In friendings you're connected to the person rather than the fandom.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-05 02:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-05 07:39 pm (UTC)That's a good point. Much of what goes on in our LJs is by necessity fanfiction, Meta, and fanart (which I believe is the trio everyone is referring to). For some of us the bulk of our fandom experience is online -- due to location, introverted natures, or the fact that we're skinflints and want our fandom for free -- but there is a larger fandom world.
I would argue that fanfiction is no longer a small part of the fandom, however, for the very reasons that it is a) free, b) available in very remote locations and any hour of the day.
It once was very tiny because it comprised Zines hawked at conventions. You had to be part of the con crowd just to be there, and then a subset of that group who was willing to shell out a few bucks to read badfiction -- er, I mean fanfiction.
Now it's an entirely different animal, extending the borders of fandom. You no longer have to commit to pay for crappy stories -- you can hit the Back button. There are reviews and recommendations that steer you towards the top shelf stories. And, through ease of online publication, the quality of the top shelf has gone up (and the quality of bottom shelf has gone down).
How far does fanfiction extend the borders of fandom now? The hits on my stories tell me just how broad that reach is. Within the last four days I have:
2580 hits from France
1253 Canada
887 Australia
990 Sweden
987 UK
986 Singapore
487 Netherlands
511 Finland
475 Cyprus
426 Denmark
226 Italy
477 Norway
197 Germany
269 Russian Fed.
131 Yugoslavia
238 Belgium
88 India
164 South Africa
96 Brazil
174 Isreal
92 Iceland
60 Hong Kong
92 Japan
16 Argentina
4675 Unknown
3276 US Educational
20466 US Commercial
In just four days. This is just one author's individual fanfiction site, and there's nothing else on it. I haven't even published much Harry Potter fanfiction lately. How many people from Belgium are registered for Lumos?
Fanfiction is huge now, it's not what it used to be. Since it is such a large component of the fandom it probably does act as a good barometer.
That said, I think people are misreading the 'fandom drift' on their friendslists. You're absolutely right that we need to look at the strengths of the communities to see the state of fandom.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-05-05 07:12 pm (UTC)I'm a archival cataloguer by trade and I find the definition of "fandom" that seems to be espoused by numerous of the above posters curious. Many seem to equate fandom with the writing of fan fiction.
Having been active in greater fandom* for pushing 25 years (I got my D&D sets when I was 13 ;-) ) and an active fan (attending conventions) for 20, I've never seen fanfic writing as the sole meter for whether a fandom is strong or not. It's been a rather small part of a whole continuum of activities. Other activities include filking (making up songs for your fandom, kind of like Weird Al, though the songs don't have to be funny), costuming, and general discussion of the core material (Which Star Trek capt. is better, how the dragons on Pern could be engineered, which faster than light travel is the most realistic, etc.).
The Harry Potter fandom is alive and well; just check out the registration page for Lumos 2006. A day doesn't go by when I at least check to see what's going on in Hogwarts Today. Most days I click through to at least something, be it art, a story, news, or an LJ post. At least once a week I comment on something.
I very much see the HP fandom as being alive and well for years to come. It may not always be the hot thing in LJ but there will always be someone working on an HP costume or thinking about the original text and writing papers on them just as people still write about Charles Dickens and Jules Verne.
Worry about fandom dying when people stop posting to communities and they go away. Worry about it when you can't find a story archive anywhere. Just because your f-list isn't all HP, all the time doesn't mean that the fandom is dead.
*Greater fandom - I have found that there are quite a lot of people with scarily overlapping interests. These include the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism), attending Sci-fi conventions, playing role playing games, and enjoying numerous science fiction and fantasy books, shows, and movies, of which the HP series is one. It is rare that I have met someone with only one fandom; most have multiple, interlocking fandoms. To make it easier to discuss I decided to call it "Greater fandom" for lack of anything more original. ;-)
Ah, sorry, I didn't see that you'd deleted and updated your comment.
Date: 2006-05-05 07:42 pm (UTC)That's a good point. Much of what goes on in our LJs is by necessity fanfiction, Meta, and fanart (which I believe is the trio everyone is referring to). For some of us the bulk of our fandom experience is online -- due to location, introverted natures, or the fact that we're skinflints and want our fandom for free -- but there is a larger fandom world.
I would argue that fanfiction is no longer a small part of the fandom, however, for the very reasons that it is a) free, b) available in very remote locations and any hour of the day.
It once was very tiny because it comprised Zines hawked at conventions. You had to be part of the con crowd just to be there, and then a subset of that group who was willing to shell out a few bucks to read badfiction -- er, I mean fanfiction.
Now it's an entirely different animal, extending the borders of fandom. You no longer have to commit to pay for crappy stories -- you can hit the Back button. There are reviews and recommendations that steer you towards the top shelf stories. And, through ease of online publication, the quality of the top shelf has gone up (and the quality of bottom shelf has gone down).
How far does fanfiction extend the borders of fandom now? The hits on my stories tell me just how broad that reach is. Within the last four days I have:
2580 hits from France
1253 Canada
887 Australia
990 Sweden
987 UK
986 Singapore
487 Netherlands
511 Finland
475 Cyprus
426 Denmark
226 Italy
477 Norway
197 Germany
269 Russian Fed.
131 Yugoslavia
238 Belgium
88 India
164 South Africa
96 Brazil
174 Isreal
92 Iceland
60 Hong Kong
92 Japan
16 Argentina
4675 Unknown
3276 US Educational
20466 US Commercial
In just four days. This is just one author's individual fanfiction site, and there's nothing else on it. I haven't even published much Harry Potter fanfiction lately. How many people from Belgium are registered for Lumos?
Fanfiction is huge now, it's not what it used to be. Since it is such a large component of the fandom it probably does act as a good barometer.
That said, I think people are misreading the 'fandom drift' on their friendslists. You're absolutely right that we need to look at the strengths of the communities to see the state of fandom.
Icarus
Re: Ah, sorry, I didn't see that you'd deleted and updated your comment.
Date: 2006-05-05 09:29 pm (UTC)I never bought any of those early fanzines for just the reasons you cite: too expensive and bad quality. The Internet certainly has been a boon to fanfic writers.
I'm going to a non-HP Sci-fi/fantasy con the end of this month and it'll be interesting to see what the current popular fandoms are. I hope HP will be represented by more than my daughter and I (my hubby and I are geeking her out early ;-) ) because I could see it and other Sci-fi/fantasy conventions becoming a haven for HP fans when the current furor wanes.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-08 11:44 pm (UTC)