My creative writing class still sucks.

[icarus]

Wonderful. The creative writing professor (yon T.A.) hasn't given us a single piece of graded work, and it's almost Thanksgiving.

The grade hinges on class participation and just two stories.

His professor/advisor is going to be sitting in on our class today and, I observe, he's not giving back our stories until after said event. He tried to con us on Tuesday: "The head of our program is going to be sitting in on Thursday, so if you're planning to go into the creative writing program, now's the time to make a good impression on her."

Icarus asks, with raised eyebrows: "Is she here to assess us, or to asses you?"

T.A.: "Uh. Well, yeah, she is here mostly to assess me."

Uh-huh. And our grades are hostage.

We were doing our workshop last week with the T.A. sitting in on that session, and I said to the person being workshopped (who looked like he needed a blindfold and cigarette after some blistering criticism), "Remember, it's not that your story's worse than anyone else's, it's just that everyone here is getting better at critiquing. It's a skill we're developing." *

The T.A. actually rolled his eyes (he's complained that the critiques aren't going well). Real professional, kiddo.

Did I mention that this Tuesday after class a cluster of us were chatting with him about the next level creative writing class. One person wanted to get in but hadn't taken the poetry class. I joked, "Well, I took a class that covered both poetry and prose."

T.A./prof., snide: "Sounds like that would be too much to cover."

Great work, teach. Undermine the classes your student has taken in the past, that's really supportive and helpful. **

As wildernessguru put it: What an asshole.

Those of you who thought he was a dick back when he backed out of the NaNoWriMo (yes, no, yes, no), and made all those rather idiotic comments about genre...? You're right.




* The student, by the way, looked a little relieved. I think it helped him to know that at least someone noticed that he was stung.

** And by the way, the professor of that class had 15 years of teaching creative writing and was a published poet. We did way more than just two stories, a few writing exercises, and bullshitting for an entire quarter.

Comments

[ethlinda.livejournal.com]

Grrrr...

I feel for you, I really do. This is the sort of thing that pisses me off as a student & even more as a teacher/tutor. Yes, that whole sentence should be in the present tense, I'm still both.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I can't believe this jerk is holding onto our scores until after this session. What a manipulative... and the pressure for me personally, when I've got a test in a really hard class today, and I don't trust him. I don't trust his judgment, and I don't trust his ability to be fair and even-handed in his grading. He's been too much like a snotty, petty little kid.

Icarus

[ethlinda.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I can believe it.

Break a leg in the test.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*breaks leg, and two arms* :D

I do, too. He's going to give them back right before Thanksgiving, too, to spare himself some grief.

Icarus

[ethlinda.livejournal.com]

Does that make you eligable for any kind of special consideration on medical grounds?

When is Thanksgiving?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Next week. This class meets twice a week, so he won't have to see us until after the holiday.

Icarus

[twistedrecesses.livejournal.com]

I was actually thinking about something along those lines - is he the kind you'd be able to argue with to boost a grade in your favor if you thought he was overly subjective? Or is he more the type to give you a bad grade because he simply didn't like your story?

...could you feed him through an industrial paper shredder?

[ethlinda.livejournal.com]

There's always going to be some subjectivity though, isn't there. It could very easily come down to
"He's not being fair!"
"Yes I am!"
"Are not!"
"Am too!".
Although, if you get a mark that you really think you don't deserve then you should be able to go over his head & have someone else remark it. The if there's a big discrepency...

[twistedrecesses.livejournal.com]

There is going to be unavoidable subjectivity. And, as I'm sure everyone has encountered, there are really bad stories out there.

What I was getting at was more along the lines of, if the story has all the aspects demanded (length, plot stability, characterization, what-have-you) and the student still receives a bad grade, would said student be able to argue (and convince the TA) that, technically, they'd done the assignment? Or would the TA be a dick and simply "suggest" that the student do a heavy rewrite?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I think the latter. He's allowing us to rewrite our stories before the end of the term.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yes. I decided to go for subtle, pointing out that if he doesn't tell each student their grades and they're surprised at the end of the quarter, they'll be much more likely to challenge their grades. If many people do that, it looks rather bad, anyone would start to wonder why.

It should obliquely, ever so gently remind him of the possibility, thus cutting off any thought he might have of giving me low marks out of sheer nastiness.

Hopefully I'm being kind and supportive and have booted him in the ass at the same time. After a discussion with amothea I realized that he probably is just behind and waffling over what grades to give. (He only changed his mind about letting me do NaNoWriMo for this class four times.)

Or maybe I'm just being soft, I dunno. I don't quite have the heart to kick the young pup.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. He's the sort to let you argue up one grade, and then take it out on you in the next.

What I really want is someone in the creative writing department that I can work with, but that's clearly never going to happen.

...could you feed him through an industrial paper shredder?

Now there's there's an idea.

Icarus

[twistedrecesses.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering how he got his position without also getting the generic lecture on "How to be supportive even when you think your students are idiots"...

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

He's a T.A., not a professor, so maybe that's how. Otherwise... maybe he's just got that snarky T.A. attitude. I know they get mistreated by both students and professors, and they get an attitude problem as a result, but jeeze.

Or, third option, perhaps he's just a dick?

Icarus

[ethlinda.livejournal.com]

T.A.s should be trained appropriately too, especially if they're going to have as much influence on, & contact with, students as this guy seems to.

As I said, Grrrr.

[blackletter]

At both universities I've TAed at, I had to take a workshop on TAing issues, like "how to be professional" and "how to be objective". (I think "how not to be a dick" was also in there somewhere.)

Of course, with some people, it doesn't help.

I feel I have to defend the honor of TAs in general. We aren't *all* snarky and bitter. Really. Some of us love teaching and love undergrads. But there is an inferiority complex that can cause problems. We *aren't* professors and the students (except those who never bother to read the syllabus (Oh, sorry, there's a wee bit of bitter TA snark slipping out...)) know it. Since we're only a very small step away from being the undergraduates' peers, it can be terrifying to suddenly be in the position of teacher.

The TA feels that his or her authority is very fragile. This can, in some people, cause them to become tyrants. This is not to say that I justify this kind of behavior. I hate seeing other TAs acting this way, since it gives us all a bad reputation.

Back to your situation, it sounds like your TA is *not* doing a good job. Not only is he tyrannical, he's not an effective teacher. (And that holding your grades hostage trick to make you behave in front of his supervisor is *not cool*. Sounds like classic TA inferiority complex issues. He can't believe that he can control you guys without being a hardass.)

Since you are paying good money for this class, you have a right to complain. But, yeah, doing so without raising ire and risking your grade is tricky. My advice is to go to his supervisor. Since you aren't making complaints like "he assigns too much work" or "this class is going to fast", the supervisor is likely to listen to you. And if you request anonymity, if the supervisor has any ethics at all he/she will leave your name out of it when talking to the TA.

In sum, if it's so bad that you can't wait until the end of the semester for teacher reviews, figure out a clear and specific list of complaints and talk to his supervisor about them. It's the supervisor's job to ensure that the TAs are doing well by the department. Since the department's money comes in large part from enrollment numbers, they do *not* want students fleeing the department because one bad TA is driving them away.

If you can get other students on board for this, too, that'd be even better. Talking to the supervisor as a group will *really* leave an impression. And lay to rest any possible suspicion that it's just one fussy student rocking the boat unnecessarily.

Anyway, there's my two...er...*looks at the size of this post*...twenty cents worth.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I won't be able to get other students on board, not without risking either damaging their feelings towards the professor or really rocking the boat.

I have to think what I really want out of this.

I'm not out to wreck his career and I think that a lot of his problems as a teacher will be ironed out with time. They largely stem from inexperience. But for now, and for myself, I am getting nothing out of his class, it's actually been slightly detrimental to my writing because of:

1) his emphasis on superficial and unreliable advice like "don't use adverbs," and "don't use summary"

2) his negative attitude towards his students, including me, that is childish and petty enough that I do believe he will ding my final grade because of his personal feelings.

I dunno, I honestly don't know what to do.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I've thought it over, and yes, he sucks, but I don't have the heart to kick the puppy. The problems are all due to inexperience, not venality or even lack of talent.

Maybe I'm a softie and I'll pay for this, I don't know.

What I've done about his not giving us the grades (he gave us our papers Thursday but decided not to grade them) is suggest that he tell students in their conferences what their grade is even if they don't ask -- you see, he offered to tell us what he would have graded them, if we ask.

He's going to end up with a lot of grading at the end of the quarter, and if his students are surprised (I'm certainly surprised at how low he's marking my story) they are more likely to challenge their grades. If a lot of students challenge their grades, anyone would start to wonder why.

This is partially me going easy on him, and partially a warning to not take any revenge via my grades, because at least one student (ahem) has thought of challenging them.

Icarus

[blackletter]

He's going to end up with a lot of grading at the end of the quarter

That alone is probably punishment enough for holding your grades hostage.

That seems like a good plan. Sounds like you've subtly (oh noes! an adverb!) let him know that any funniness with the grades won't be well tolerated. (And if things deteriorate further, *then* you can get more aggressive if necessary.) And with luck his supervising professor will help him work on the "be supportive of your students" thing.

And I hope that you never get stuck with a class like that again.

[sociofemme.livejournal.com]

I wish you could let his professor/advisor know about this. He clearly seems to be holding your grades hostage for good behavior in front of the advisor (or it appears that way to me), but is ze accessible for a private chat?

What a dick that guy is. *sympathizes*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Well, I could mention it during class. But since he hasn't graded our papers yet, it would adversely effect my grade.

She might be accessible, I'm not sure.

I really regret taking this class.

Icarus

[ethlinda.livejournal.com]

There should be avenues for complaint and if there's evidence that there's a problem, or if a group of people have similar complaints, it will probably make a difference.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Most of the students in the class have never taken a creative writing class before and don't know any better. There's a general sense of nervousness about how he's going to grade. Someone asked, "Are we going to be marked down for adverbs?"

Icarus

[channonyarrow.livejournal.com]

That was going to be my suggestion - maybe talk to her after you get the grades, or explain to her, in a letter, what he's doing that is wrong. Obviously you'll want to do it after you have the chance to suss her out in the class - if she thinks he walks on water, you'll be screwed. But there should be some way of getting her attention about his behaviour.

Is there no academic redress for this sort of shenaniganery with your grades? That was the best thing about Evergreen - we wrote teacher critiques every quarter, and we could request that they not see our evaluations of them until we had received our evaluations FROM them so that they couldn't take a bad eval and turn it into fodder for fucking up a student's academic career. But Evergreen grasps well that students and teachers don't always mesh, and it often doesn't mean anything about either, other than that they didn't mesh.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

She seems fair and impartial. I don't have the heart to kick the young pup, though, it's just... not what I want to be.

I went for the subtle route. I suggested that he tell students in their conferences where they stand in their grades. If he doesn't, and students are surprised at the end of the quarter, well... surprised students are more likely to challenge their grades. If a lot of students do that, anyone would wonder why. Creative writing grades are much more subjective and harder to support if they're challenged.

I think what's going on is he's behind, didn't have time to grade, was waffling over what grades to give us, and so --didn't. He put off the pain, and it's not a good idea.

Icarus

[amalthia]

holding grades hostage just ain't cool. I also thought it was really nice of you to help that one guy who got all the critisicm on his story.

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

I hope you talk to his Prof/advisor ASAP. Shitty TA should never be tolerated. This is also why I thank the gods that I've never had to deal with a TA.

[tonicollins.livejournal.com]

This jerk's prof/adviser needs to know what he's doing. Holding grades hostage makes me wonder what he'd do if he particularly liked one student who really needed a good grade. Abuse of power combined with rampant stupidity is not something I'm looking for in a teacher of any sort.

[harveywallbang.livejournal.com]

senior year of high school, my first time in an AP class. i took AP english with the dumbest rock on the planet. we had summer homework. turned it in first day of class in august...didn't get it back until first day it snowed....in january..(and there were only...11 of us? and it wasn't that big of a project...and she didn't have many other classes... there was no excuse for that...)
your teacher sounds like an idiot too...
and they think they're helping us..