Undoing my "creative" writing class.

[icarus]

Dear f-list,

I need your advice.

A month ago I finished a creative writing class. The class went very, very badly, and I don't think I need to go into details now since I've spent many posts describing it.

What I need your help on is the after-effects of the class and limiting the damage on my writing. The symptoms are as follows:

From the antagonistic and undermining comments of the teacher (such as the classic, *snort* "and you wanted to NaNoWriMo...") I'm struggling with a separation between myself and the story, killing it with over-criticism before it can be written. How do I get rid of that?

From the heavy-handed "rules" orientation of the class, rules that I had to follow in order to survive the class with my grade intact, I'm now hyper-aware of "adverbs," and to a lesser extent, "summary," and "visual detail" in such a way that it's distracting and hard for me to finish a first draft without killing it. How do I remove those three months of training?

From the personal animosity he directed at me and at science fiction, I feel defensive and on the spot, focused on whether a story is "good" instead of just enjoying it as I have in the past. How do I counteract that oversensitivity to audience reaction? I've always written for the reader -- my first stories were oral, told to my friends as I made them up.

He did a lot of damage, more than I realized, and I'm not sure how to shake off the negativity.

Frankly, based on how he treated us, I have to assume that he's really not that good of a writer. How can he be, if this is any indication of how he squeezes out a story? If this is what he does to himself... *shudders* When I talked to him he had no writing projects going except for a creative writing thesis that he hadn't begun.

That's not a writer. That's someone who's "learned to write" and has found they "are good at it."

A writer needs to write. A writer can't stop the stories nibbling at their toes, or else they're bemoaning about writer's block and wanting to write. Or else they're stalled in that monolithic story.

I feel like I have had some sealant poured over my skin and I can't breathe.

There are several stories starving for lack of oxygen at the moment:

- A Christmas fic called "Silent Night" where John plays guitar for his team under the stars on an alien world

- The latter half of a story where John sleeps his way through half the Pegasus galaxy and the dire consequences come home to roost

- The next scene of Out Of Bounds, where John and Rodney make dinner and play

They're scratching and clawing to get out, they have complete outlines and they're started, but I can't seem to give them air.

Comments

[wymsie.livejournal.com]

I'm struggling with a separation between myself and the story, killing it with over-criticism before it can be written. How do I get rid of that?

I've always done this to myself and if you do find out how to get rid of it, please share. I have so many stories I want to write but I just can't. Not without a lot mental hair pulling or a mix of a challenge deadline and sleep deprivation (I'm not so critical when I can barely think). *sigh*

Good luck!

[libitina]

The Christmas fic sounds fairly contained. It also sound like it might benefit from going back to the oral tradition. Why don't you get relaxed and pull out your outline and then just start making voice posts telling the story. Make them private - tell it a few times - then see if you want to keep it oral or if you want to write it out.

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

To quote Gaiman: Just. Finish. It.

I heard him talk once about writing to deadline, a skill he learned as a journalist. With fiction, he was asked, how do you do that? How do you force the ideas?

He says, you just write. Often, he observed, when he knew that parts of a piece had flowed easily and parts had been dragged out kicking and screaming because he had a deadline, when he went back and read it long enough later, he couldn't figure out which parts were which.

Plus, your teacher's crap sums up exactly why I can't stand to read much literary fiction. It's so damn self-conscious.

Just finish it. Set yourself a deadline (say on the skater fic since you posted a snippet to work off the dust) set a word target, and write it. Some of my best stuff on one project came because I had decided all the chapters would be between 3,200 and 3,800 words, and I hadn't reached the mark yet.

[eternalmusings.livejournal.com]

I've never taken a creative writing class, so I don't have any personal experience to relay to you. But perhaps you should try some oral story writing again? Get a tape recorder and just start making up stories. It's hard to worry about adverbs and all that. At the very least, it might help you get back into the habit of just telling stories again.

Good luck!

[mad_maudlin]

Hmm. Maybe you just need to get back into the saddle with these fics? I know you're still writing, because you posted that lovely porn battle piece with John's fantasy man (and I know I didn't comment right away but OMG that was wonderful). Or is it that you feel all right tossing off something like a smutlet, but are getting anxious about your "real"/"serious" fic? (Please note the scare quotes there.)

Maybe if you try something that deliberately subverts some of Professor Pretentious's rules...play with style and structure a bit and see what comes of it. You don't even have to post it publically, just stretch all the writing muscles that got cramped up in that stupid class.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Shit. My normal mode is one of devil-may-care cocky self-confidence combined with, "ha, have you read ff.net lately?"

I started writing out of frustration with feminized guys, and I never aimed to be a great writer, I just wanted to do better than some of what I'd read.

And then I just got into the fun of the story. Even when people haven't liked a story I've always felt there was an audience somewhere for it. If I like it, probably someone else does, too. So far that's been true.

But there was this constant subtle message in that writing class that it mattered somehow if you were good or bad at it. That in and of itself is a story-killer. It's poisonous.

Defining a "good" story is problematic to start with.

It's like defining "beauty" -- you can't, really, not without creating a neurosis. If you create an abstract measure of beauty ("thin is in!") then no one can meet it, all the gorgeous round girls think they've failed at being gorgeous when in fact it's the standard that's the problem.

Then along comes some opera singer with her full confidence and full figure and you go, wow, "she's gorgeous!" nevermind what the Miss American pageant says. It's because she hasn't been defeated or seduced into believing that narrow, impossible to meet standard of beauty can be met by anyone. And the slippery bugger keeps changing, too.

Stories are like that. Everyone has a different shape and a different voice, and there is no universal measure of "good"-ness.

There's just effective, and ineffective, and then underneath there's this fire that's the essence of the story that's going to shine through if you let it, even if your technique isn't ideal.

That fire is more important than anything else and that's what captivates the audience. So don't douse it with worrying if it's good or not. Just catch that wave and go with it.

Icarus *records this to play back to myself later*

[an-kayoh.livejournal.com]

I'm going to second the person above and say to just write. Set yourself a deadline or a wordcount and pound it out. I've often done this when I've had a story due for class or for a challenge, and usually the first draft goes off to the beta (giving me time to recover), returning covered in red ink.

By then, though, I know what's wrong with it and I feel up to revising. On some occasions I've kept as little as one scene through all of the drafts. It's easier to go back a revise something bad than to write something good right off.

And read. Read fanfiction, read scifi, read your favorite books, the ones where you're pretty sure that the authors weren't glancing over their shoulders every twenty seconds at their editors. It tends to be inspiring.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I write stories in chat to my friends, and that seems to be similar. Hmm, yeah, I might try the tape recording idea. (You and eternalmusings seem to think alike -- wondertwin powers, activate?)

Thank you.

[ursulakohl.livejournal.com]

Write something intentionally horrible! Sign up to ff.net and post hundred-word snippets as MariSuzie588! See how many awful cliches you can pack into a sentence!

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

As filenotch says, the sort of writing he describes is the sort that bores me to tears. Adverbs and summary and visual detail don't matter if the story's got you by the throat and you think you're going to die if you don't find out what happens next right now! And that's the kind of story you write.

I think your teacher was antagonistic towards you because you made him feel threatened--here you are, someone who's actually writing and loving it, while he's...not. And to add insult to injury, you're not even properly embarrassed by writing sci fi. *rolls eyes* When someone has got me doubting myself like this, I'll ask myself if that's the kind of person I want to be. If he's not the kind of person you want to be--if he's not the kind of writer you want to be--then I think his opinions and advice can be ignored. There are a million ways to write, and the fact that someone hired him to teach a writing class doesn't mean his way is the right way.

I don't have any advice other than to write (or tell the story into a recorder and transcribe later). When I'm killing creativity with criticism I stop it by promising myself I'll come back and fix every awful thing...later, when it's all done. If I have to I'll make a note to myself so I won't forget the awful thing, and that's usually enough to quiet the critic so I can get on with it.

[sarka.livejournal.com]

Issue number 1:
Do you have a story which you HATED when you were writing it, but every time you read it you're surprised because it's actually pretty decent? Go read it.

I also know that you've got some fics you didn't like while you were writing, but got a good popular reaction - go read those reviews.

In short, undermine your own criticism. You're not the be-all end-all authority on what's a good story, not even your own stories.

Issue number 2.
My advice to this would be to keep writing. Just write, and focus on the "I can always beta it later."

Personally, for this I'd read some Icelandic sagas, but maybe that's just me... it's just that they are somewhat stunningly lacking in both adverbs and visual detail. It is also a very thorough course in the use of subtext.

Issue number 3.
I sometimes get hung up on this. When I do, I try writing until I'm completely bummed, then send what I've produced to one of my writing oriented friends to get their opinion. Usually, their opinion is somewhat better than mine ;)

Also, if you can get someone to sit on the other end of a YM convo and feed them bits and pieces of story as you write it, that helps.

Since you introduced me to salixbabylon, for which I owe you a depth of gratitude, btw, and she is the one who usually does this for me, I'll just tell you that she's really good at this ;)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_minxy_/]

I'm going to give purely practical advice: call your betas and have them look at a draft, get on IM and tell them the story and see how they react to plot points. Post a story and bask in the feedback.

You've been separated from the joy of telling the story; rather than trying to forget something, try to remember something else, something more important. You might find small changes in your tone, in focus, that your writing has evolved, but at least you will be writing.

[gaiaanarchy.livejournal.com]

I don't know about this guy in particular and all his bad habits, but I think that the best thing to do is probably to look at the class like all other classes (well, if you're a slacker like me, anyhow) and say that a class is kinda like a continental breakfast - everything is spread out there for you to learn or not to learn and you get to taste and choose and not take everything to begin with. And of the stuff that you do take and put on your plate (sometimes just so you can pass) you only have to taste most of it - you don't have to eat any of it at all.

I'm sure there were good things you got from the teacher's overbearingness. Personally, even though I am one of those people you classed as 'needing to write' taking a class when the rules were laid out for me did my writing a world of good (and the difference is visible in my fics, you can see it). At first I was stressed because it was a forum class and a lot of times the other students were even harder critics than the Prof. Before I was kind of defiant in my 'I'll write what I write and I don't care if it's good,' which was needed to get me to write at all, but I'm also a believe in statistics - the 'rules' are there because they probably represent elements common to maybe 80% of good writing, and if you follow them, you increase your odds of a certain level of quality.

On the other hand, knowing the rules also means you can mess with them - if your professor is picky about adverbs - try making a race of aliens that use adverbs for everything! If you know that audience expects the overall flow of a story to go a certain way (they meet, they fall in love, they have conflict, they get introspective, they return to their lover's sweet embrace) then you can guide your audience along each step of the way and then throw them off a cliff at the end (erm . . . sorry, that's my own approach to storytelling coming through).

In the end, I think that having heard and even having been criticized by a guy who you acknowledge as being an ass and probably one of the ones who can write something with 80% in common with a good story and still miss the mark, can only do you well (see how I left that who ramble handing between subject and verb? Tehe).

I just say fuck him. Take the advice you like - know what it is that people think makes a good story and then do whatever the hell you please keeping all that in mind.

Then write him into a story and toss him off a cliff and into a pit of constipated vipers.

[apple-pi.livejournal.com]

I second (third, fifth, whatever) the advice to just write. When I am stuck I have to be disciplined about it: have a specific time where I sit down, get rid of distractions, and assign myself a time period (usually an hour) where I am not allowed to do anything but write on one particular story. Can't check my email, can't check my flist, can't go to the kitchen and get food, no washing the dishes (and dude, you know it's desperate when I'm wanting to wash dishes to get out of it), etc. So I write for an hour (usually starting with me staring at the screen for a minute, typing in stops and starts, talking to myself out loud, yadda) and then, if I'm still hot, I keep going. If I hate every word, I stop, but I don't delete what I've written.

The other advice I have is different from what I see up there (although I didn't read every comment thoroughly), and that is: READ. Go read a bunch of scifi! Read genre fic! Read fantasy and romance and whatever you want. Hopefully that will remind you that it's okay to write those things, that genre fic is nothing to be sneered at, that science fiction can be fantastic and intelligent and character-driven and thought-provoking in all the same ways as more mainstream fiction novels.

Or, uh, whatever. :-)

I'm sorry you had such an asshat for an instructor. Writing isn't mathematics, and people who treat it like a series of formulas make it rough on everyone else. It's fine for THEM, but they shouldn't be allowed to TEACH, for Chrissakes.

[izzybeth.livejournal.com]

millionth-ing the advice to Just Write. (i should take that advice.)

also, if you have time (i know how busy you are with school), read. books, fic, the newspaper, the back of the cereal box. that usually helps to kickstart me.

also, if you are so inclined, make a little voodoo doll of your teacher and SET IT ON FIRE.

[rike-tikki-tavi.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how to shake the effects of your "class", but I want to strangle that guy. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

And wouldn't that be a sight. Couple of angry fangirls showing up at his place, because his shit is depriving you of writing and us of fic. Again with the GRRRRRRR!

I can't much say about adverbs and summary, because I know nothing about writing theory and I usually don't notice the number of adverbs in a story, but I can tell you that I love visual details. If it's done well, it makes the story so much more dense and real.

Ok, basically this is a long winded way of saying to trust your instincts and just write. Maybe create a filter and post it flocked, see what other people are thinking. You did that when you were unsure about the one scene in Out of Bounds and it seemed to work. I mean, unlike that guy, everybody here knows that you can write.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

To quote Gaiman: Just. Finish. It.

Okay. He has a good point there. Thanks.

Plus, your teacher's crap sums up exactly why I can't stand to read much literary fiction. It's so damn self-conscious.

It is a reason to run, don't walk, from the creative writing program. Which is too bad, I was sniffing around to try it out.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Like this?

There were three countries, each of which was owned by its own dragon. There was the high country with the mountains, where the ice dragon lived. She didn't come out very often except to receive gifts of gold and jewels; tribute it once was, but now she's old and a fixture, and the local people are rather proud of her, telling stories of her more fearsome days....

[salixbabylon.livejournal.com]

*hug* Same as everyone else said. My experience writing when I felt demoralized after some harsh betaing was similar - I wanted to write but felt stuck, afraid. I worried about doing it wrong and my normal style was totally blocked.

So I took a long break. And then I wrote for me. Write with tons of adverbs, 3 per sentence. Write the purplest prose you can and indulge in feeling defiant. DOn't write with the goal of showing it to anyone, necessarily, just write for you, just get words on the page and let go of the sense of worry that it's not good enough.

Eventually, you realize that it bloody well *is* good enough. You rock.

*hug* (Lots of hot baths and port helps, too.)

[arachnethe2.livejournal.com]

Dear Icarus,

I'm comenting for the first time on your lj, since it is finally the right time to tell you how very interessting I find your writing about your religion, your life and your studies.

You were asking for help in dealing with your current struggle. My advise is: just continue writing, telling yourself that you will deal with this badly written place later.

This one attitude helped me often when I was desperate with my own 'horrible' english and the story stood stuck on one place for months. Today, when this feeling of 'horrible' english strucks me again I'm telling to myself: yes, this pace is badly written but later, there is going to be plenty of time to correct it. And later, when I return to this place I find our that this scene, paragraph, or even the whole story wasn' t so bad after all. :)

[mkcs.livejournal.com]

As a non-writer (well, not stories), I can only give advice based on my experience as a visual artist, not a writer, but I think this is relevant.

Write! Write nonsense if you have to. If you write lots, you'll lose the stupid stuff you got from the class. The image I use is that someone has built a little dam in the stream, and you need to send lots of water down the stream to wash it away.

Another thing that might help is reading Stephen King's book On Writing. He basically says the same thing: it is writing that makes one able to write. (Besides, it's a good read.)

Finally, here's my favourite quote about writing:

"I've whittled them down to two pieces of advice. Which are, (1) if you're
going to be a writer, you have to write. (2) You have to finish things." Neil Gaiman

[alyndra]

Okay, just for variety's sake: if you don't happen to feel like writing, don't write!

I sympathize, though. I thought about studying creative writing in college, but then I took an online creative writing course. I kind of hated it. On the bright side, it gave me valuable intel on what not to do in college.

[wychwood]

On the oversensitivity thing, I'd guess that the best answer would just be to keep putting stuff out there for people to read - fanfic, original snippets, whatever. We're usually pretty good at responding, on LJ. And we're interested!

[electricandroid.livejournal.com]

Woman.You've had bigger assholes in your life whom you were supposed to look up too for longer periods of time. You got over them. Please do not let this little pisshead phase you

:)

MWAH

[enname.livejournal.com]

I echo all those who say write. Just do it. Just finish it. Get it out. Don't stop to fiddle and stuff until it is out. Or not much fiddling. Then think about it and hand it off to a beta so they can smack you if they think you are getting too fiddly and pernickety. At least until you have some sort of equilibrium back.

I have to do it with my thesis - if I start worrying about what I am writing I never write.

Fuck adverbs. If you don't use them much, then it doesn't matter. They can be sorted out afterwards. Really, they can be sorted out whether you should use it, or do need to go and describe. Same with visual detail. Go with what you instinct says the first go, not what you have running over your head. If you are second guessing, leave it as it is and get someone else to look it over.

You have plenty of betas, but I'll also volunteer for extras if needed.