(no subject)

[icarus]

wildernessguru and I just watched "Sunday." This was bad timing given yesterday's news about WG's mom's cancer. I'm looking for anything to cheer him up. Online silliness. What have you. He just called The Puppy.


SGA just jumped the shark.

I was looking forward to this episode, because I knew it would give us some cool behind the scenes insights into the characters. The moment the episode closed wildernessguru said, "This is the beginning of the end."

It wasn't so much that Carson died. Elizabeth's speech at the end was off, a strange combination of overblown and insincere. The bomb-in-the-body is a retread from an early SG-1 episode, right down to reassembling the minerals from the body.

The floaty ending with Rodney and Carson feels like it was pasted in as an afterthought. It takes up a lot of screen time and doesn't have the same pacing or look of the rest of the episode.

WG's points out that he didn't like how Rodney instantly figured it all out. No theories, no back and forth. "I hopes that's not a sign of things to come."

The jeopardy was artificial and forced. A random bomb? I love Martin Gero, but he should have run with his original plan and not felt he had to put in some kind of jeopardy. This episode should have been light-hearted and fun. This was leaden, the fun overburdened with the weight of killing Carson. Maybe if they'd killed someone less important and well-loved it would have worked.

Nah.

20/20 hindsight, it would have played better if it had been a false alarm that pulled everyone out of their day, making the point that they never have a day off. But Gero did say while he was writing it that he was obligated to put in jeopardy because it's an adventure show, so, hey, I was one of the ones on the boards trying to come up with ways to make it work. I didn't come up with anything better given the constraints of having to have some jeopardy. Now I have a good idea.

Okay. Now for the good news:

- John Sheppard in his uniform. Tzzzzt. I've so been waiting for this. (Psst. Aside to Joe Flanigan: learn to stand at attention. They do that in the military. Even in the Air Force. Rick Anderson learned. Look at stills from season one of SG-1 where Rick slouches like he's wearing a suit, and then compare them to season five, where Rick got that military stiffness right.)

- John asking if Ronon was seeing a woman... or man. And the John/Ronon shippers go wild!

- I enjoyed the scene with Elizabeth and her boyfriend. Ah, Elizabeth, you're fooling no one.

- Even though it broke my little slasher's heart, I liked the scene with Katie and Rodney. Watching him put his foot in his mouth time and time again was priceless. "I want to get married." What? "Oh, nonono, not to you!" Oops. "I mean, I mean-- not right now."

- Rodney dressing down the two scientists. Oh, he's the boss from hell, isn't he? I'm surprised no one's pulling brilliantly cruel pranks on him.

- Zelenka! I love my Zelenka, utterly confident in his chess talent without being overtly egotistical. "The sky's blue, there's water on Atlantis, and I'm a great chess player, yes, now pay up." Point me to the Zelenka fic.

- John's divorced! Color me unsurprised. And not good at being married. Translation: "I was married, and the divorce was my fault." Ha. He so slept with someone else.

I'm taking bets now. How long was John married? How many other women did he sleep with?

And what exactly happened?

Theories? Thoughts? Scenarios? Answer in comments. ;)

Comments

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

He so slept with someone else.

That's not where my brain went. Young, stupid marriages and divorce within a few years are epidemic in the US military. I figure he married young, just before being posted overseas for the first time, and was divorced within 3 years at the outside, after having lived with his wife no more than 6 months total. Reason? He had this completely separate life and he couldn't talk about it in any meaningful. Upsetting things happened and he shrugged it off or made a stupid joke. They really didn't have much time together or have much in common, and he wouldn't *talk*.

Also, he's gay.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*grins at you* Yeah, that's a really plausible scenario.

Young, stupid marriages and divorce within a few years are epidemic in the US military. I figure he married young, just before being posted overseas for the first time

So... 22? He married because he knew he was going away and he didn't want to lose her. Also, he wanted to put down roots in a life that felt largely rootless. But that didn't change the fact that it was rootless by necessity.

I'll go with the non-cheating, but also, he doesn't consider that blowjob in Frankfort cheating exactly because....

[wordwitch.livejournal.com]

Nah, he didn't sleep with someone else. He didn't talk to her, he played too much golf, he didn't let her know about deployments until the morning of, and he forgot every annivrsary they had.

See, she pursued him into marriage and he didn't care enough to keep out of it; and then she was surprised when he didn't care enough to stay in it.

He thinks he's bad at marriage. What he's really bad at is becoming what someone else decides he should be - unless he becomes convinced that it's really necessary.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

He didn't talk to her, he played too much golf, he didn't let her know about deployments until the morning of, and he forgot every annivrsary they had.

He hung out with his friends instead of her. Didn't call when he was going to be late and thought she was being a pain in the ass when she said she worried and wanted to know where he was all the damned time.

See, she pursued him into marriage and he didn't care enough to keep out of it

How did that happen? I mean, John's pretty stubborn. How would she get him to do something he didn't want to do?

[wordwitch.livejournal.com]

If he had wanted not to do it, she would not have stood a chance. But she was beautiful, he had a vague idea that pilots and officers ought to be married - his dad had said as much, in the months after his mom had died and before he crawled into a bottle and took off on his last mission. And her dad was Air Force, a friend of his father, and influential.

At least half of John's trouble with the Air Force is that half of the command structure has personal cause to think him a cad and irresponsible.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

So John would sum it up, "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. I dunno, I guess marriage was a bigger deal than I thought it would be." He gives a sly wistful grin, looking away. "The honeymoon was nice."

Was he trying to copy his parents' marriage, or assumed that it would be like that?

[wordwitch.livejournal.com]

He behaved exactly as he was brought up to behave: quiet, polite, not troubling others with his drama ...

She was a bit more forceful than he expected, but he rather liked that. He's always felt safer with forceful people who know what they want.

It would just have been a lot more comfortable if she had paid him less attention - let him do his thing, done hers, had fun, done her work and let him do his.

You know: the way Rodney does.

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

How would she get him to do something he didn't want to do?

He's just a girl who can't say no. I can see it so clearly; he didn't want to hurt her feelings, so he went along with it until the day he woke up married.

[florahart]

Aw, sorry.

I haven't seen any of the new half-season or whatever the hell they're calling it of SGA (but am thoroughly spoiled).

Anyway, people gave me a couple of silly links, not so much new things, for some recent ouchiness of my own; dunno if they might help a little: http://florahart.livejournal.com/540680.html

There's another one in the comments.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

(but am thoroughly spoiled).

Oh, whew. I was sweating bullets till you got to that part. Sillines ahoy!

I have some porn to write. You know, just to lighten up the heaviness in this corner of the world.

Icarus

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

The bomb-in-the-body is a retread from an early SG-1 episode, right down to reassembling the minerals from the body.

Yes. And SG-1 at least had the sense not to call it "exploding tumors." Which is a misnomer, anyway, since it wasn't an uncontrolled growth of cells. And where exactly is "behind the lungs"?

Also -- you think join cheated on his wife? I figured it was a poorly thought out marriage followed by deployment followed by them actually spending time together and realizing whoa -- mistake. Maybe I'm just more of a romantic.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Also -- you think join cheated on his wife?

Let's be kinder to him. He "slipped." Far from home, he let a friendship with a woman (he's always gotten along with women too well) get too close, get out of hand. He ended up in bed with her and woke up the next morning with an "oh shit." As he pulled on his pants he said this was a huge mistake. She tried to reassure him but he blew out of there.

He talked to his buddies about it and they told him to not tell his wife. "Don't. These things happen, man. Get over it." But it ate away at John.

Back in the states he felt like he was putting on a facade when he hugged her, like there was miles between them. So over dinner one night he told her. He just wanted to bridge that gap.

The marriage went on for a year after that, and sometimes it was better. But she watched him like a hawk, like he might do it again any time now, and he couldn't seem to do anything to make it right or re-establish trust.

He received the divorce papers while he was on deployment and gave her everything but his Johnny Cash albums and the guitar.

I figured it was a poorly thought out marriage followed by deployment followed by them actually spending time together and realizing whoa -- mistake.

Ha. Sheppard? Do something ill-considered? *g*

What was the mistake? Why didn't they get along?

(This is fun. Like gossip, only without the damage to other people.)

Icarus

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

Here's how it goes in my head...

John is about to be deployed to Afghanistan. He's seeing someone, but has only known her for a couple of weeks. But with the deployment everything is so intense and suddenly there are "can't live without you's" and then they're in the county clerk's office with rings, and then he's on the plane. And they write letters and stuff, but he honestly doesn't think about her too much. And then when he gets back they actually spend a bunch of time together (you've got to figure with that black mark on his record, he'd have some forced leave). And he kind of gets on her nerves and John realizes that she has this laugh he really hates and they don't really even like each other all that much.

I could see that happening, and leading John to believe that people who commit to relationships are kidding themselves (or at least he's kidding himself if he thinks he can commit) and it's much better to leave as soon as the honeymoon period is over.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

But with the deployment everything is so intense and suddenly there are "can't live without you's" and then they're in the county clerk's office with rings, and then he's on the plane.

I can so see that.

(or at least he's kidding himself if he thinks he can commit)

I think this is it, yeah.

So how old was he when he got married?

Icarus

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

Oh my god! It just occurred to me that that's who his final message in Letters from Pegasus was to!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Wait. What was his final message? You mean that one word final "goodbye"?

Oh, wow.

Icarus

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

Because he just picked up and left in the middle of the night to ship out to Antarctica and then Pegasus and he never even said goodbye.

And then he made some real friends and figured out where all that emotional stuff was maybe supposed to go, and realized what a crappy husband he'd been.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

So the rest of his message is a cryptic, "To my ex-wife, I... just wanted to say: goodbye."

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

Wait. I thought he didn't leave a message, that he turned it down when Elizabeth asked him.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

That was my confusion, too. But there is a cut away at the last second of those letters where John says one word, "Goodbye." It isn't likely that he's saying that to the SGC, it's not professional in tone. So therefore... he did send some kind of personal message. Even if only just one word.

Or, er, that's how I read teaphile's point anyway.

[maraceles.livejournal.com]

Also, the background in the "goodbye" shot is different from his other message. He's totally talking to someone else. *g*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, it is? *eyebrows raise* Wow.

That's very cool. That was a pretty intense, soft goodbye.

Icarus

[maraceles.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the "goodbye" was something, huh?

And yeah, someone on LJ (I don't remember who) told me about the differences in the background shot, so the next time I watched the episode I checked, and yep, different. *g*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

It's so like John to say "I'm good" until he learns that no one's going to see the private goodbyes. Then at the last second, he adds one, leveling a death glare at Ford, "No one sees these, right?" in a tone that says, no had better see this and that means You.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Hey, Filenotch, I just learned that the background for that "goodbye" was different from his message to Sumner's family, too. So there was a private message.

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

Okay. I missed it. Interesting that he didn't want Elizabeth to know.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Or it could be he changed his mind. Though, huh, yeah, that might make sense.

Wouldn't it say divorced on his personnel file? She'd already know.

Hmm. He is very private though.

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

He probably changed his mind. Now I think he stared at the screen for a full thirty seconds, intending to say, "I'm sorry." But he couldn't, because, in the end, he wasn't. Still, he felt he owed her the goodbye. In the accompanying paperwork, he states that the message can be sent to his father, his younger brother, and his ex-wife.

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I'm inclined to think the marriage was a bigger, fancier deal than a pre-deployment mistake. I'm thinking a sorority-girl type (maybe her father is a military bigshot) and they're sort of going along according to the script, and she's smart and fun and beautiful and he's enjoying himself, so dating and then getting engaged and being the groom in a brizezilla-esque extravaganza wedding sort of happens, and it wasn't his goal in life or anything, but it just seemed like the thing to do--everyone around them expected it, and everyone was pleased and happy and supportive with every milestone. Then, once they were married and it was just the two of them it pretty quickly became clear that it had been a mistake.

I actually think John would've stuck it out and stayed with her, for better or worse until death did they part, but she wasn't willing to settle for that. Once she realized that John wasn't who she thought he was, or at least hadn't come to the marriage with the same goals and intentions that she had, she divorced him. (And he honestly didn't see it coming, and still isn't really sure why it didn't work out, hence his idea that he's 'not good at marriage'.)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I love the idea of John in the middle of a "brizezilla-esque extravaganza," stuffing cake in her mouth, young and swept along with it.

How long do you think it took before she realized it was never going to work, and what was the make or break issue?

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I think not very long--maybe a year, two at most, and if that long only because he was deployed somewhere and they weren't living together. See I think she's smart and pragmatic--she'd have to be in order for John to have fallen for her in the first place--so once she realized it wasn't going to work, she didn't drag it out or create a lot of drama.

As for the make or break issue--I don't think it was one particular thing. I think, for her, all of the milestones--valentines, rings, engagement parties, the wedding, etc. were about them being together. For John it was more like a thrill ride he'd gotten caught up in, and stayed on because he was having a good time. Once the ride was over and they'd moved on to day-to-day life she started to suspect that John wasn't, and never had been, really about them being together. She tried to talk to him about it, but he was clueless, and honestly didn't understand what she was trying to get from him, and eventually she decided to cut her losses and get out before things got messy and ugly.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

This combines really well with dkwilliams's response (http://icarusancalion.livejournal.com/588587.html?thread=7856171#t7856171), based on her years as a military brat. Hmm. And it works with piplover's response as well.

[piplover.livejournal.com]

From personal experiance, I can tell you that right out of boot camp, EVERYBODOY'S libido is way out there. Possibly becuase they put salt peter in the food at Basic, which suppresses the libido, so when you stop getting it you suddenly have all these raging hormones. When I was at AIT, I got engaged...to a man I had known for three weeks. Five of my roomates got engaged...to people they had known for less then a month. People were having orgies on the weekends and fuck buddies were practically around every corner.
So, my personal opinion? He got married right out of Officer Training, when his hormones were all messed up and his brain wasn't working quite right. After about six months to a year, they both realized that they knew nothing each other and decided maybe they were a little too young to have made such a commitment.
Also, I'm sure his deployments didn't help, nor the fact that 90% of military wives, at least where I was, had their wedding rings off and were in the bars the same night their husbands left.
Military. Not for families.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, that makes sense.

It would be just like John to take it to heart and make a long-term decision about himself based on some mistake he made 15 years ago, never give himself an inch or accept that circumstances might have something to do with it. It would sound like an excuse.

Icarus

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

The floaty ending with Rodney and Carson feels like it was pasted in as an afterthought. It takes up a lot of screen time and doesn't have the same pacing or look of the rest of the episode.

To me, it looked as if it were pasted in after being lifted from the end of Babylon 5's finale "Sleeping in Light." I assume either Martin Gero or the director got the boxed set shortly before work began on this episode.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

My (utterly unprovable) theory is that they added this last scene once the word of Carson's death leaked onto the internet and they got a load of the reaction. I doubt TPTB have forgotten the reaction to killing Daniel Jackson.

Icarus

[dkwilliams.livejournal.com]

Regarding Sheppard's marriage, I think it's likely that he had one of those early, disastrous Air Force Academy marriages. (I like the idea of him being an AF Academy graduate). Happens quite a lot (I'm an AF brat, one of my dad's friends taught there, and I've heard stories). A lot of the guys at the Academy date the local girls who are very attracted to the whole fly-boy image. Right after graduation, the guys buy fast cars and marry their sweethearts - the chapel has weddings on the hour, there are so many. Then they go to their first duty postings, which are usually not all that glamorous, small bases in the middle of nowhere (like Altus, OK). Or they move every six months while getting training in different kinds of aircraft. And the wives find that they're living in the sticks, moving as soon as they get settled in, having to make new friends over and over. And sometimes they'll only see their husbands for a couple weeks before they're off again. (My mom says the reason why there's 5 years between my younger brother and sister is because she didn't see my dad for months on end). Some wives thrive on that, some of them get so miserable that they break up. Given the additional burden of not being able to talk about missions and work, and Sheppard's own inability to talk about his feelings, I can easily see the marriage going down in flames.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Regarding Sheppard's marriage, I think it's likely that he had one of those early, disastrous Air Force Academy marriages.

Yeah, this is making sense.

I like the idea of him being an AF Academy graduate.

Same here. He's so bright, and wouldn't this be the shortest fastest route to get in the air? I knew someone in high school who was in love with flying, and he knew even when he was a kid that's what he wanted. His family didn't have money, so the military was the way to go. He studied very carefully his best options to get to fly what he wanted: who had what aircraft and what training program. I can see Sheppard being that single-minded.

Right after graduation, the guys buy fast cars and marry their sweethearts - the chapel has weddings on the hour, there are so many. Then they go to their first duty postings, which are usually not all that glamorous, small bases in the middle of nowhere (like Altus, OK).

Oh, yeah. I can so see Sheppard going for the "life" -- the beautiful car, the pretty, intelligent wife. Then reality sets in. Just because he's a bit cynical now doesn't mean he wasn't starry-eyed then.

Or they move every six months while getting training in different kinds of aircraft. And the wives find that they're living in the sticks, moving as soon as they get settled in, having to make new friends over and over.

This makes total sense, especially when you consider the list of aircraft Sheppard rattles off in "Rising." That's a lot of training. (An improbable amount, in fact.)

Given the additional burden of not being able to talk about missions and work, and Sheppard's own inability to talk about his feelings, I can easily see the marriage going down in flames.

*pours you a cup of tea* So what do you think happened, exactly? ;)

Icarus

[dkwilliams.livejournal.com]

Same here. He's so bright, and wouldn't this be the shortest fastest route to get in the air? I knew someone in high school who was in love with flying, and he knew even when he was a kid that's what he wanted.

Yeah, I think he always wanted to fly and that was an in. If he was a military brat (as some have theorized), it would be a little easier for him to get a nomination, too.

*pours you a cup of tea* So what do you think happened, exactly? ;)

Well, when my dad went in, during his first 2 years he was at three different bases for training, and my mother has not-so-fond memories of him gone for long stretches, and when he was home, he built model air planes. I can see John's poor wife being stuck in the same sort of situation (and if he's played golf since 6, then he would have been out with his buddies doing that on weekends).

I think that Sheppard's first assignment was probably Randolph Air Base, near San Antonio, which isn't a bad location for families (a lot of families retire there), for a 52-week training program. Then I imagine he went to Fort Rucker, AL, for helicopter training (it's an Army base but has been doing AF helicopter training since '71), and then maybe to Kirtland AFB which is near Reno for their combat crew training. Now, Kirtland isn't bad, but Fort Rucker is nowhere - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Rucker - and I can easily see Sheppard's wife going nuts there. I'm not sure how long that training is, but it's probably a year. There is literally nothing near by - it's at least 2-3 hours drive in any direction to get to a big city (like Montgomery or Mobile). There's little in the way of fine dining or entertainment, although some decent golf courses for John. *G* If she was all caught up in the glamor of the Academy flyboys, picturing exotic assignments, not realizing that's it's a very isolating lifestyle and not everyone is meant for it, that assignment might have done it for her. And if Sheppard was a military kid, used to the lifestyle, I think he would have blamed himself for not seeing that his wife wasn't cut out for it.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

John's really good at blaming himself for everything, isn't he?

You know, the last I know who was like that eventually reached the point of saying "fuck it." He was screwed -- no matter what he did he was a fuck up, so he might as well do what he wanted.

Icarus

[dkwilliams.livejournal.com]

A friend still in the AF sent me this link for info which I think is cool:

http://www.baseops.net/militarypilot/

And this cartoon is funny, although a bit dated:

http://www.usafhpa.org/10cmds.htm

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Very fun, loved the cartoon especially. Famous last words indeed.

"I think I can make it."