icarus: Snape by mysterious artist (Default)
[personal profile] icarus
Received a very young author's request for a beta review. She sent an unfinished story and was really lookng for help in writing it in the first place. I liked my response, so I'm posting it here:

Hi! Here's my recommendations:

First, finish your story before looking for a Beta reader. If you need a Beta reader in order to finish your story, what you're really looking for is someone to collaborate with you on the story.

If you're looking for someone to collaborate, you could try the www.barrowdowns.com, or check the LOTR Yahoo groups.

Second, never have conversations 'floating in space.' It will read like a transcript of a chat session, and that's not good. Example:


"Hark!"

See? It doesn't tell us anything.

Always use the conventions, example:

"Hark!" he said.

At least now we know it's a man speaking.

Always include a visual description of the environment, example:

"Hark!" he said. While the sun hovered, rimming the world in a blaze of gold and orange, a black smear outlined itself against the sky, like a great smoke seen from afar.

Ah! Now the visual description frames the words. We know a man is speaking (and likely there are others he's talking to), and we have a picture to visualise with it. And there's something for him to be saying 'Hark!' about.

Ideally, you give the image a point, some meaning to him.

"Hark!" he said. While the sun hovered, rimming the world in a blaze of gold and orange, a black smear outlined itself against the sky, like a great smoke seen from afar. "That is no cooking fire. War is afoot."

Aha! The last part about 'war is afoot' tells us a lot: that they did not expect to find something burning ahead, but that they have an idea who it might be.

Ideally, you tell a little bit more about the situation, example:

"Hark!" he said, scanning the horizon. His troops stood behind him warily, trusting the elven warrior's keen eyesight. While the sun hovered, rimming the world in a blaze of gold and orange, a black smear outlined itself against the sky, like a great smoke seen from afar. "That is no cooking fire. War is afoot." His face was grim.

Now you know a lot. Suddenly you know the leader is elven, while his troops are men. You know that they trust him. They are fighters, so they're are more or less trained for war. You knew before that they guessed war was afoot. Now you know how they feel about this war: grim. The reader is wondering - why are they grim? Is this someone they know ahead? Are they outnumbered? Has a truce been broken? Who are these men and why are they following an elven leader?

In one paragraph, suddenly you have a compelling story.

I hope this is helpful.

~Icarus

Date: 2003-06-13 01:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simmysim.livejournal.com
*pouts* darn it all, i wish i had known you when i was just starting out...

Date: 2003-06-13 09:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icarusancalion.livejournal.com
I wish I knew me when I was first starting out. I wrote the most appalling Mary Sue when I was 13.

~Icarus

Re:

Date: 2003-06-13 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simmysim.livejournal.com
*rolls* i sort of did that in my earlier years ... i would just turn my favorite characters into mary sue's or whatever the male equivalent of that is.

it's so strange to think of you doing that...

Date: 2003-06-13 10:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icarusancalion.livejournal.com
Ya gotta start somewhere.

My Mary Sue was a sci fi character who'd been experimented on and given - wait for it - cats' eyes and claws! It began with a heart-pounding 'miraculous' escape onto a FreeTrader (ripped off from Andre Norton) ship. There was, of course, no plausible explanation why anyone would give me (er, my character) the eyes and claws I would love to have had, but, well, anyways... come to think of it, there wasn't any explanation for it at all. Heh.

If I had it to do over, I would have the FreeTraders catch her ruining the furniture. Whack that kitty with a newspaper!

~Icarus

Re:

Date: 2003-06-14 12:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] simmysim.livejournal.com
OMG TAHT SONDS LEIK A R3ALLY K3WL STOR1E!!!1!

Date: 2003-06-14 05:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fanfic1787.livejournal.com
Maybe I'm nuts, but I don't think that writing a Mary Sue story is so bad. Granted, it might not be the best idea to share it with the world, but a good beta will be able to help determine what isn't suitable for posting online. This might be a poor way of doing things, but I generally find that I'm able to write convincing characters only when I find the part of myself that relates to the character I'm writing. It's either that, or I try to get into the mindset of the character. In a certain sense, a Mary Sue type story could be the first step in this process. I don't think I've ever written a Mary Sue myself, but I guess you could make an argument that relating to your character too much makes it a Mary Sue. Darn if I know. =)

Date: 2003-06-15 03:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icarusancalion.livejournal.com
Oh, heh. Well, when I was 13 PC's didn't exist, and there certainly wasn't an internet. Not in the form it is today.

What you're describing isn't what I would call a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue by my definition is a self-insert who is:

a) poorly thought out as a character (you see, since the writer is putting themselves in, they forget that others don't know them).
b) has their faults glossed over or non-existent.
c) has super-powers or super-something (great beauty, 'fascinating dark past') to make them nauseatingly unrealistic; and,
d) has the world of the story revolve around them.

Basically, a pure Mary Sue is a giant ego-trip. Though there are Mary Sues that don't have all these traits, and therefore aren't as painful.

~Icarus

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