First day teaching ESL

[icarus]

So today I met my new student. She's from China and speaks intermediate level English.

She comes across, of course, like a little child, or someone without much education. I know better from my own experience of trying to speak German and Tibetan, but our perceptions of each other are so based upon language - how we use it, our vocabulary, what we choose to say - that I was still surprised that she was college-educated.

Her manner was matter-of-fact about it. You could tell it was expected, not a special or proud achievement.

I recall that China used to have a real deep separation between the sexes. Women weren't educated at all, and there was a lot female infanticide. I know who changed this: Mao Tse-Tung, the same man responsible for the Cultural Revolution and the destruction of Tibet. I wonder how many revolutions are so double (and triple and quadruple) edged. The definition of evolution is just 'change over time,' but some changes we can accept and some we can't. The very same policy of equal education took my friend Kyid-pe from his nomadic family, shipped him to a Chinese boarding school where he wasn't allowed to speak Tibetan, where he was was told what his name was now... and given a Chinese name. The kids were cruel because in a school of a couple hundred there were only four Tibetans who weren't allowed to associate with each other because they were to be Chinese now. The Great Leap Forward.

When he went home, years later, he couldn't find his family.

To the school administrators, they were educating a barbarian, doing him a favour. Without their intervention he would have raised horses and yak and never learned to read and write. This was a goal we would laud. But he wasn't given an equal education. That would have been taking it too far, because he wasn't really Chinese. Even if he had a Chinese name.

I wonder if there's also a sense of educating women, but only so far. My college-educated student, her husband's a Chinese Physicist, a Ph.D. There's still female infanticide.

I suspect that the bind Kyid-pe was caught in has less to do with the Cultural Revolution, and more to do with Chinese culture as a whole - that view of outsiders as barbarians - and how difficult that is to change. I suddenly feel a little empathy for Mao, despite all the suffering his unilateral policies caused.

Comments

[toujoursimpur.livejournal.com]

That's interesting, and very true, because at our family reunion last year my little brother was the dog's bollocks throughout the entire affair and I was just "Oh, look how you've grown! Have a cookie." Furthermore, my grandmother is the most submissive person I know.

I don't know about crediitng Mao with the bridging of the gap between sexes ... I'm interested as to why you say that. I wouldn't have called Mao's policies entirely unilateral - instead of putting everyone on the same level, it had a bit of a seesaw effect. For instance, my father was the head of his class until the Cultural Revolution, and then selections for the Red Guard started and he didn't get in til the very end because he was class president and not a peasant. Mao was primarily for the proletariat - not so much for evening things out as for having the working class prevail. I think this has had the detrimental effect of causing suspicion and a fierce competition between people in China - they don't often trust strangers, aren't friendly to anyone but people they know.

That's what I've gleaned through exposure, anyway, may or may not be accurate.

[simmysim.livejournal.com]

i'd just like to say, i had absolutely no interest in almost anything you said until i read this post on it. you're writing is like . . . hypnotizing and magical. o.o; i mean, i enjoyed myself while reading it, and i can get bored reading something that i'm fascinated with.

you have teh m4d l33t skilz.

[ursula]

Well, my Ph.D. program has 2 Chinese women in this year's class to one American woman . . .

[icegemini.livejournal.com]

Female infanticide definitely still exists. A girl I graduated high school with was Chinese. Her family fled China to Australia. I'm not entirely familiar with story, as I didn't know her particularly well, but as I understand it, it was for that exact reason.

I love reading what you write, you have interesting and valid viewpoints that are fascinating! ^.^

Female Infanticide

[laurellias.livejournal.com]

I am not sure that Mao alleviated female infanticide. Not only does female infanticide still exist, but it didn't become popular until the one-child policy. Before, both male and female children were usually brought up and cared for except in times of dire poverty such as famine. In that respect, the Communist government may be responsible for the high rates of female infanticide in China in the past thirty years.

Re: Female Infanticide

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

He didn't. The equality I was referring was that women now receive a college education, where before they didn't.

Icarus

[byandby.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting topic....In 2001, I participated in a study abroad program in China.

I think that humans, as a whole, can adapt to anything. However, this takes time. In China, I think that the problem lies with the rapid change. As with any culture, what we are now is a product of what we were. When you introduce rapid change, a shock will occur. Chinese culture suffered a major shock when its world was turned upside down in 1949 when Mao gained control. Everything that was known and considered to be right or wrong suddenly shifted. The world was thrown into chaos. There had been a separation of the sexes and suddenly everyone was equal. People were going to resist. Heck, there is still resistance (aka female infanticide - boys are still preferred).

The policy of equal education is also not unique to China - European-Americans took Native American children and put them into schools to teach the children "properly". The same thing happened in Australia as well.

Outsiders as barbarians - Sadly, it happens everywhere on every continent.

My apologies, but it was such an interesting post.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Sorry, no, this was a wonderful observation.

When you were in China, what was it like now? All my images are from people who suffered miserably during the Cultural Revolution or had their monasteries blown up. The spin is that there's more freedom inside China than in the Tibetan Autonomous region, but that it is rigidly controlled (each monk has to be pre-approved and is not allowed to practice more than a few hours). Same for Daoist monks.

But others from Beijing tell me that 'oh yeah, those are the rules, but it's not what people really believe.' They repeat how people just practice their beliefs in private and how the soldiers refused a direct order to fire on the Dalai Lama's palace with artillery because 'no thanks, you do it. I don't want the karma.' They've said that Chinese view communism as just one more regime and one more philosophy in a long, long history, and are sort of waiting it out.

I've also heard that China has a booming economy right now and everything's really expensive, but there's a huge amount of opportunity.

What are your impressions?

My Asian History teacher said this morning that Mao's ideas would work under fire, with people in a desperate defensive mode like during the Long March. But once it's expanded to an entire country with complete freedom, dealing with people who are not pressed against the wall (so to speak), it wasn't appropriate or effective.

I'm really curious about your experiences in 2001.

Icarus

[moojja.livejournal.com]

Hi, I found this entire conversation interesting. As a chinese, who moved to US at a young age, I have my own view on the subject. When I was younger and had more belief in the communist system, I did think that Mao helped with the status of women. I still think that is true. Although it wasn't just Mao's idea. The entire communist system demands equality, its one of the basic premises. How far that idea has spread is harder to say. While most women do work outside of the home (unless you're rich), that is more about survival and money issues, than women's right. Eventhough there are now women's programs (for spousal abuse, and rapes) there is still a stigma attached to the issues. The best view of women in china today, I think is best sum up in a story I read. This woman was raped and force to marry an old man, b/c she was not a virgin. She was then beaten, and mistreated. She pretends to cheat on the old man, then commits sucide as revenge. This story is very much symppathetic to the female hero, at the same time, it seem to say: "bitterness is a woman's lot" Or to quote another favorite author of mine: "Women are the mule of the world".

As with infancide, I don't have stastics, but it is not common. Espicially in cities, where most couples keep one child due to space, as much as the one child rule.(which is much relaxed now) It also doesn't seem right to blame the communist gov. for increase of infantcide; the cause of infantcide is b/c girl-child is not valued, not b/c of the one child rule.

Sorry to be so long, but once I got started, I couldn't stop. Although as exception goes, neither my mother or me have ever keep quiet, just b/c a man was speak. And my female boss, who came from a family of 5 sisters and one youngest boy had this to say:"He was the favorite, and we all knew it was only b/c he was a boy, so we all made his life HELL." Sometimes personal will marches on regardless of culture.

[laurellias.livejournal.com]

I would say that the cause of infanticide was the preference for male children, but the catalyst was the one-child policy. Before the one-child policy, infanticide was extremely low; once the parents were forced to choose between the two, male children won out due to traditional values. That doesn't excuse anybody, but the Communist government does have to bear some responsiblity. Also, infanticide is much less common now - the trend seems to be either having one child, having many and receive the penalties, or abandon the female children.

Also, interesting comments about female rights. I agree that traditional values are still very strong. I don't remember when divorces were legalized, but I believe they were very late, and even now there is strong stigma (mainly against the woman) for divorcees. Also, one of my friend told me stories of women being kidnapped to the country because the ratio of males to females are extremely skewed in certain areas.

As for university education, I wonder if Chairman Mao actually deserves as much credit as he received. He certainly campaigned for female rights etc., but Western universities were also fairly biased against women in post-secondary education prior to the nineteen-fifties/sixties. The large numbers of female graduates are a comparatively recent phenomenon. Would China have encouraged women to attend universities even if Chairman Mao didn't take power?

[byandby.livejournal.com]

I won't lie. I loved it. Absolutely loved it. The people were incredible and wonderful, as I could only say "thank you", "too expensive", and the numbers 1-10 in Mandarin.

I did study anthropology and US/China relations, with professors, assignments, and all. Through this, I think that I gained a greater appreciation and understanding of the culture and the country.

One thing that I did notice: "Real" women dress differently than "commercial" women (ie actresses, popstars, etc.). In my "western" view, the actresses styles' exude sexuality. There's cleavage and tight clothes. However, "real" women don't dress like this. There is no cleavage, no tight clothes. There seems to be a complete separation - a definite line drawn.

In terms of the economy, I think that China is considered to be capitalistic communism. Economically, it's becoming more capitalistic. Free markets, private ownership, etc. - it brings the money in. Labor is cheap and the environmental and safety standards are low - hence, the boom of foreign companies.

Politically, well, it's still Communist. Big brother, lack of rights and freedoms, human right abuses, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that many Communist states are officially atheist. And with Tibet being the center of a worldwide religion - it may be seen as a threat and must be controlled. It also sends a message saying that we are in control - do not mess with us. I've also heard that the only way to get into Tibet was with a group. Solitary travelers had to "join" a group before entering the country.

The people - there were poor (and I mean poor) people and there were your middle income people. My group stayed at universities, so we mostly saw people who could afford a college education.

Price wise - well, everything was really inexpensive. Except for Wal-mart. Can you believe it? There was Wal-mart in Kunming (capital of Yunnan province). I went strictly for comparison purposes. (Sadly, that is actually the reason I went.) About the rules? Yeah, I don't think that some of them are strictly enforced. Buddhism is one of the major religions in China and we visited several incredibly beautiful temples, as well as one mosque in Xian. They can't force the people not to practice religion. It simply cannot be done.

Have I said that I loved China? Our last stop was in Beijing (for a week). We visited Mao's mausoleum, where you can pay your respects to Mao's plastic filled body. Really, you can walk by his dead body. When you leave the building, there are 20 different vendors selling Mao memorabilia - his picture on watches, cigarettes, lighters, pens, stationary. It was too funny. Ironic as well. Mao's rolling in his grave as we speak.

A quick overview of the trip: Hong Kong -> Kunming -> Dali -> Li Jiang -> Xian -> Beijing

I would recommend reading The United States and China in the Twentieth Century by Michael Schaller. It gives an interesting and, for me, a rather enlightening look at this rather tense relationship. I've studied anthropology and economics, never Asian studies. As I hate to admit it, before the trip, I did not know much about Asian history or culture.

Aack. I loved it. This concludes a very long post.

[taricorim.livejournal.com]

I'm not quite certain of that... males still outnumber females in Chinese post-secondary education (whereas, by contrast, in Canada females outnumber males). There are still vast differences between the sexes. Also, Mao didn't so much make education equal as render it obsolete.

Infanticide is rarely practised in cities. Most people go with gender-selective abortion, instead.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

People don't know what female infanticide is. They think it's doing something like, oh, taking a pillow and smothering the kid. That's not common.

In reality it's unequal care. For example, if a female child is sick not as much effort is spent caring for her as would be if she were a boy. A girl-child is far more likely to die of common diseases, injuries, etc. When it trickles up to the statistical level it's very obvious that little girls are dying in surprising numbers from things the boys survive.

How did Mao render education obsolete?

Icarus

[laurellias.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I've never heard about more girls dying due to poor treatment. Do you have the statistics you mentioned? I am assuming that most of these deaths are happening before the age of ten, when children are most vulnerable?

Most of the female friends who came from China were actually treated very well; one of them was given a male name (reflecting her father's desire for a male), and was encouraged to read books about scientists, politics etc. at a very young age. On the other hand, I know a girl who was born in North America with a Chinese background whose mother discourages her from being a doctor (seen as a male profession).

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

You'd have to contact Ed Reep for the statistics. Would you like his email?

Icarus