Mary Sueage.
Sep. 11th, 2004 09:57 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icarusYou know, 'Mary Sue' is fast becoming one of those overused terms, like 'Xerox' and 'Frisbee,' where the original meaning has nearly vanished. It seems that every time someone wants to criticise a character, they bring out the 'ol Mary Sue club.
It can mean everything from 'this character has magical powers that aren't believable' to 'I don't like this writer.' There are even those who dislike all original characters in fanfic and call them all Mary Sues. (Which makes no sense to me, because isn't every fictional character ever written an 'original character'?)
Do I want to rehabilitate the term, clarify the meaning?
No. That's a lost cause.
It's just time to be more specific. Why is the character a Mary Sue? What is it that bothers you? Try it on for size. Which critique is more effective -
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your super-human magical abilities are implausible.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your plot is thin and not believable. Everything works out in your character's favour, all the time.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your characterisation is flat. Your character has no apparent flaws to make them real and interesting.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your character seems self-serving. They seem solely to serve your agenda, rather than being real and independently working within the story.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your character seems to be a self-insert, with all the handsome men dropping at her feet.
All of these are Mary Sues. And not every Mary has all of these traits.
Yes, believe it or not, it is possible to have a self-insert in a story with an excellent plot, clear characterisation (and plenty of flaws), no super-human abilities in sight, and no agenda. You can also have an 'agenda character' in a story that is otherwise outstanding, where the obvious purpose of the character is to drive some political point.
And a Mary Sue isn't necessarily bad. There's even a very famous Mary Sue.
His name is Bond. James Bond.
Because of the other factors in the story, the zippy plot and winkingly fun Dr Evil bad guys, you're willing to suspend disbelief at this very obvious self-insert.
So be specific in your feedback. If something doesn't work in a story, tell the author exactly what it is. Calling the character a Mary Sue doesn't mean anything.
It can mean everything from 'this character has magical powers that aren't believable' to 'I don't like this writer.' There are even those who dislike all original characters in fanfic and call them all Mary Sues. (Which makes no sense to me, because isn't every fictional character ever written an 'original character'?)
Do I want to rehabilitate the term, clarify the meaning?
No. That's a lost cause.
It's just time to be more specific. Why is the character a Mary Sue? What is it that bothers you? Try it on for size. Which critique is more effective -
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your super-human magical abilities are implausible.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your plot is thin and not believable. Everything works out in your character's favour, all the time.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your characterisation is flat. Your character has no apparent flaws to make them real and interesting.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your character seems self-serving. They seem solely to serve your agenda, rather than being real and independently working within the story.
This character is a Mary Sue.
Or: your character seems to be a self-insert, with all the handsome men dropping at her feet.
All of these are Mary Sues. And not every Mary has all of these traits.
Yes, believe it or not, it is possible to have a self-insert in a story with an excellent plot, clear characterisation (and plenty of flaws), no super-human abilities in sight, and no agenda. You can also have an 'agenda character' in a story that is otherwise outstanding, where the obvious purpose of the character is to drive some political point.
And a Mary Sue isn't necessarily bad. There's even a very famous Mary Sue.
His name is Bond. James Bond.
Because of the other factors in the story, the zippy plot and winkingly fun Dr Evil bad guys, you're willing to suspend disbelief at this very obvious self-insert.
So be specific in your feedback. If something doesn't work in a story, tell the author exactly what it is. Calling the character a Mary Sue doesn't mean anything.
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no subject
Date: 2004-09-11 05:11 pm (UTC)Mary Sue, of itsself *is* a pretty blanket term, but I know what you're talking about. I had a fic out (it's since been removed for revamping) that had an original character, who was NOTHING like me. Yes, every man fell at her feet, madly in love. But there was a REASON for that (she'd cast a charm on herself to make it that way) and it was a plot point. Igot a coupla flames for it, "That is SUCH an over done Mary Sue!!" "Why did you make it so that everyone fell in love with you?? This sucks! Didn't anyone tell you that Mary Sues are a bad thing?" and so on. The problem with that was that the whole story had been written and posted by that point, and the plot point had been revealed (not going to share why, since the story's almost ready to be re-released and I don't want to ruin it for anyone who may wind up reading it somewhere). Anyway, the character WASN'T a Mary Sue, she just happened to use a characteristic of for a specific plot purpose. It irked me to no end that people thought immediately that she was. That's part of the reason the story is being revamped.
Of course, there ARE fics of mine that have every right to be called a Mary Sue. Hell, I say they are in the header, and they are almost ALWAYS there to poke fun at myself. Much as Scribe's Proverb Series (http://www.scribescribbles.com) pokes fun at Mary Sues in general, and her own in particular. However, those are intentional, and you're really reading them at your own risk.
Anyway, since I think i've gotten off the topic a bit (sorry), I agree with you that the name Mary Sue has gotten to be over used and to mean very little of what it's actually *supposed* to mean anymore. I don't know why this has happened, except for reasonably uninformed fic readers are using phrases that they don't know what they mean just because they've seen other people use them and they think that they know what they mean. :P I'm tempted to set up a website just to help people figure out what terms mean, both in the HP fandom and in others.
Hugs,
TW
no subject
Date: 2004-09-11 05:54 pm (UTC)Icarus
no subject
Date: 2004-09-11 06:09 pm (UTC)But, look at the world today, and tell me it's surprising that things like that happen. :P
Hugs,
TW