Percyness quality guidelines.

[icarus]

Over the last several months I've received stories at Percyness: The Percy Weasley Archive that were of questionable quality.

Many of them were completely unbeta'd and written with the care you'd put into sketching a fic on the back of a cocktail napkin. Some had formatting so strange the story was unreadable. I'm not speaking to the person who uploaded their story as a solid block of text.

I've struggled with some truly bad poetry. Other stories were borderline. They seemed to be beta'd, but consisted of minimalist verbal tags floating in a sea of nothing, or epithets overused to a point that it seemed dozens of people occupied the bed and not just two. There were excellent characterisations of Percy with all other characters as cardboard cut-outs dancing around him.

It has stretched my original policy of "accept everything if it's at least beta'd" to the breaking point.

I didn't want to be the arbiter of taste. But neither do I want to host an archive of stories no one would want to read. Where does one draw the line?

What do you think? What do you want in an archive?

[Poll #695887]

Comments

[anna-liisaslyth.livejournal.com]

I answered the third one. I haven't have time to read fics recently, but unbeta'ed stories are indeed a problem. I hope it gets solved (and I hope I don't get banned from the archive for not writing anything decent in a long time. Damn, I need to get into writing again - I have 99 Percy/Lucius fics to write).

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

but unbeta'ed stories are indeed a problem.

You've noticed, huh? It really slows things down in the submission process.

I hope I don't get banned from the archive for not writing anything decent in a long time

I can't imagine anyone being banned from the archive. :)

Icarus

[anna-liisaslyth.livejournal.com]

You've noticed, huh? It really slows things down in the submission process.

Yeah and it's a problem in Finnish fanfiction too. It's a pain to read unbeta'ed stories. That goes to every language and fandom, actually. And I'm sure it's a pain for those who have to read through all the fics before letting them into the archive.

I can't imagine anyone being banned from the archive. :)

Now that's good to hear :) I'll try my best to write as much as Percy fanfiction as possible ;)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

By the way... Percy/Narcissa? That's - that's surprisingly hot. How twisted!

The wealthy woman, "widowed" with her husband in Azkeban, cynically looking for "company." The young ambitious Ministry employee, well-mannered enough to be presentable, to take her coat and hold the door. Foolish enough to be seen with her in public, ignoring the "crass innuendo."

"Mrs Malfoy is a lady," and he tells himself that he's merely being polite, chivalrous. It's difficult to see such a beautiful women of her standing treated like she's guilty of her husband's sins.

*shivers*

Icarus

[anna-liisaslyth.livejournal.com]

By the way... Percy/Narcissa? That's - that's surprisingly hot. How twisted!

Yeah, I know. One of the few Percy/Woman pairings I support. I just thought about it.. they ship Percy with the Malfoy men, so why not the Malfoy woman once in a while.

I got interested while I was thinking about after OotP possibilities with Lucius/Percy and I thought that Narcissa would be lonely and so on. That's how it started, actually.

[trobadora]

I voted for "open season", but what I really mean is "at least spell-checked". Otherwise it becomes entirely too subjective for my comfort. Please don't take this personally - I don't trust anyone when it comes to screening fic! *g*

And after all, one person's horribly written, unreadable fic is another one's horribly written fic redeemed by a kink button it hits right on target.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, rec-lists are really much easier because it's understood that it's arbitrary. I mean, I could run the archive like that, but I'd like to have some consistency.

Icarus

[trobadora]

Completely agreed on the consistency. And actually, the arbitrariness is one reason I rarely use rec sites. I realise I may be the only person in fandom who feels this way, but I'd rather trawl through everything myself and be sure I haven't missed anything I'd have enjoyed. My filtering is pretty good, so I don't waste much time on the kinds of stories I don't want to read, and I don't have to rely on someone else's taste. (Also, most recs lists aren't much better than a random sample from an archive when it comes to matching my taste! *g*)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

You bring up a really good point. Archives aren't rec-lists, they serve an entirely different function.

Icarus

[sarka.livejournal.com]

Love that last options - would've clicked it if I was a more prolific author :D

I checked the archive and 'Stockholm Syndrome' is in there - I didn't realize that, but I see you've put in all the Ficathon Entries.

But on the issue, most people no longer have time to read the stuff that is to be found in vast archives - I for instance only read on recommendations, and I'm even picky in my choices of reccers, so I'm all for selective archives. When I want to read fic, I don't want to start by sifting through mountains of bad stuff, and knowing that an archive has standards makes it more attractive in my not so honest opinion ;)

That being said, I must confess that I generally set out with only the vaguest notion of what I actually want to read ("something longish with Draco" is a frequent requirement) so maybe more variability would assist in getting more traffic - but still, most people don't want to read stuff they don't think is good, and will backbutton out of obviously unbetaed stories in haste.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yes, when I closed my Earthlink account the Percy Fic-A-Thon site went with it. I moved all the Percy Fic-A-Thon stories to a section in the archive.

I'm all for selective archives

The best pairing archives are the ones where the archive owners trawl for their pairing on FA and so forth and invite the writer to their site. That's how titti does it, and it works very well. My time's been limited lately though. Hmmm.

Icarus

[bethbethbeth.livejournal.com]

I actually clicked on a box that doesn't reflect what I would read, but moderated archives drive me crazy. You, I trust. Seriously. But I've seen far too many friends have stories rejected by moderators who actually can't spell and don't know grammar and have only the most tenuous grasp on canon...you know?

Yes, I want an archive in which the stories have been beta'd and the formatting is decent and all, but I believe in a sort of a hands off policy.

Hmm...what if people had to be brought into the archive, sort of like skyehawke or the archive at the end of the universe? That way you'd at least have some sense that someone you trust had vetted them already.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

There's nothing more depressing than being rejected from an archive, and then scanning through it and finding... crap that was accepted.

You begin to have dangerously sarcastic thoughts. "Gee, so to get accepted to this archive I needed to have: a) Hermione/Percy, and b) a scene where he gets on bended knee and begs her hand in marriage. And here I wasted all my time on an actual plot."

Hmm...what if people had to be brought into the archive, sort of like skyehawke or the archive at the end of the universe?

You can't really do that for a pairing archive. A lot of writers will only have one story that features Percy in their vast collection of Draco fics. :D

I hate rejecting stories. I shut my eyes, feel a moment of pain, and then click the button with the air of someone giving the signal to a firing squad.

Icarus

[sarcastic-irony.livejournal.com]

This really got me hung up, actually. It's true that Percy stories are hard to come by (I've read most every story on the site), but we cannot sacrifice quality for quantity. I picked choice three, because it's a fair minimum. I mean, I always want more Percy stories, but I hate getting lulled into reading crap.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

This really got me hung up, actually.

It's tough, isn't it? I'm usually a pretty decisive person, and more interested in being fair than in being liked -- but this? This is a tough call. Especially when you get down to the individual stories.

Icarus

[sarcastic-irony.livejournal.com]

Yeah. This is a real problem in the Percy-centered writing pool. I just hate when I finally find a Percy story I haven't read (there are few), and it turns out to be WAY OOC and just plain bad. That makes me even more sad than not finding new stories at all.
I feel like Percyness is a good archive (with the exception of people's lack of commenting) because it is a good collection of stories that, even though I've read them, are still better than most you would find elsewhere.
And as much as I'd like to say, "fuck up bad stories until they're good," one, it's not your job to beta everyone's work, and two, filling an archive with crap is worse than not filling it at all.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

because it is a good collection of stories that, even though I've read them, are still better than most you would find elsewhere.

I'm glad to hear that. I think when I cut off my Earthlink account and the Percy Fic-A-Thon site shut down and moved... well, that made a core of 50 quality fics. People did an amazing job on the Fic-A-Thon challeges. Then I begged some solid writers like James Walkswithwind, Hijja, and Cedar for their Percy fics, so that really helped. Oh. Almost forgot: I haven't asked Copperbadge yet. He's got a great Percy/Oliver, very masculine and hot.

with the exception of people's lack of commenting

That is a problem but it's not the readers' fault. The system is set up so you have to be logged in to leave a review. It's a real pain. I don't know enough about eFiction to solve it yet.

Icarus

[sarcastic-irony.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I often want to leave a review, but then I have to sign in, then find the story again, and then remember what I was gushing about a moment before. And my admiration cools, which makes for less awesome reveiws.

[dancing-moon.livejournal.com]

How about banning or warn that you will probably ban certain types of stories? And I mean eh, format and type wise, not content.

Like... Following categories are banned/by invitation only/more heavily moderated:
- Free-form poetry
- Script stories
- Characters do talkshow
- Original main character (or well, side interest)
- other things where quality is often questionable

And I definitely think that decently spelled and coherent is at least what we need. Otherwise, why even bother reading the stories, you can just auto-ok all kinds of crap

[flamesword.livejournal.com]

Bwah. XD I'd choose the last option, if I even wrote Percy fics. Seriously though? Number three. It really does take all kinds, and if it's out there, people will read it. People read, and judging by their reviews, even love things that make me shudder from the sheer incompetence with which they were written. But that's their problem, not mine. I'm glad it makes them happy. XD

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I can't make up my mind between two and three - because there are authors who can pull off very decent stuff without a beta, and fics that have been betaed and you wouldn't notice. And then I've seen fics that had their writing problems (not overwhelming, but noticeable), and were still entertaining, and with Percy, who spawns rarepairs by nature, missing out on fics/pairs can be regrettable...

I don't know whether you're going over each entry to the archive as it is, but if you do anyway, would a 'star system' be an option? Which could provide a guideline for readers about basic writing/characterisation quality of a fic, so the more discerning ones can avoid the bad stuff, and that Percy/Umbridge rarepairfic would still be there even if it has a ton of grammar/characterisation problems... (just a theoretical example, of course!). Or would that be too potentially wank-inducing?

[swtalmnd]

I'd have to say I'm all for the third category -- it's your archive, so go ahead and toss out the people who are really horrible on the spellcheck/beta/bad writing level. And this way even if an author hasn't remembered to thank their beta, if the fic doesn't suck, it can squeak by ;) and conversely, if their beta was their best friend who never makes them fix their apostrophes, you're still within your rights to hit that big gong of "no".

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

I was in doubt whether to choose "minimum standards" or "decent writing only." In the end, I chose the latter, but I'm afraid if you go with this option, you'll get a lot of tedious work for yourself: not to be accused of nepotism, you'll have to explain why this or that story isn't decently written, in your opinion, and argue with the authors of those fics. At WTP we decided to require minimum standards, but then it's a popular pairing and no number of mod volunteers would help us if we chose otherwise.

Btw, we are hoping that you'll upload your Snape/Harry stories that were at Detention. They were:

Cursed Artefacts For Sale
Rare Scottish Snow
Unexpected Guest

You already have an account, so if you didn't get the e-mail with your temp password, tell me, ok? Erm, that is, I don't want to presume, so if you don't want to upload these fics, I won't nag. I just hope you will :)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'd love to, I just happened to hear about WTP's grand re-opening right before finals so wasn't able to do anything about it.

Password-? My spam filter might have gobbled that email. Would you be willing to resend it?

Icarus

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

Snapetoy just e-mailed it to you again, and I forwarded it to you too, so maybe one of them gets through.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

In the end, I chose the latter, but I'm afraid if you go with this option, you'll get a lot of tedious work for yourself: not to be accused of nepotism, you'll have to explain why this or that story isn't decently written, in your opinion, and argue with the authors of those fics.

I'd have to state the standards up-front on the submission page and run the risk of scaring people off. Or do what Telanu used to do with the old WTP and just say I reserve the right to refuse any story. But I need to clarify for myself at least what those standards are because it's too hard to make the call at 2am when a paper's due and a submission turns up in the in-box.

It helps that the Percy-fans are a quiet lot, used to being downtrodden, hopelessly defending their favorite much-maligned character. :) Anger is less likely than wounded sulking.

Icarus

[usually9-15.livejournal.com]

I think the spelling and grammar issues would drive me crazy were I to be in charge of anything like that. I mean, I have a hard enough time TAing without going batshit on my students. I can only imagine what it would be like to not have to worry about being a bitch because I'd just see them in class the next day...

I'm 100% for the 3rd option.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I have no qualms about bouncing a story for spelling and grammatical errors. That's standard in the fandom and easy for them to fix with some quality beta help. It's more the difficult to define problems that concern me.

For example:

- overuse of epithets
- strange and confusing formatting
- poorly executed first-person narration (where the inner voice is not connected with external events and rambles without a plot)
- gratuitous violence (non-con where no motive is established)
- a lack of setting (reads like a script)
- insufficient dialogue tags (you can't tell which character is speaking)

Characterization issues annoy me but I'll let them go, likewise weak plots and stilted dialogue.

It doesn't have to be a great story by my standards or even something that I like. But there are certain basic story-building skills that I suspect need to be present, or else I worry that people will click on a recent submission and judge the entire to be an ff.net of Percy fic.

Icarus

[usually9-15.livejournal.com]

Gotcha on the clarification :)

I guess one of my biggest questions is how a fic can be beta'd and still have many/all of the concerns you mentioned as well as spelling and grammar problems. It makes me wonder if all of the people requesting readers aren't the ones doing all of the reading for everyone else, which, of course, means that everyone's pieces have all of the same problems. Besides, if you're a good writer who's able to pinpoint these problems, what's the likelihood that you'll want to beta a shitty fic? It's terrible, I know, but I know that it would be really difficult for me.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Actually, isiscolo is an excellent writer who routinely does very beginning-level beta work.

In general though, different betas look for different things.

From me, I might miss a word you skipped, but I've a good eye for characterisation and why a characterisation feels off. When it comes to other people's stories I can see structural problems. Don't have me do your SPAG errors, I'm only average at catching them, but talk to me for writing advice and 'big picture' stuff. Meanwhile, wildernessguru's spelling is atrocious, but he can spot a plothole or inconsistency a mile away. And if he knows the canon you can't stray. I always run my stories by him.

We all have different talents.

Some of what I list there is personal taste, say, the gratuitous violence, and wandering first person narrative.

But the other things-? Basic story-telling skills.

Icarus

[cheshyre]

Honestly, that's one of the reasons why my Percy/Malfoy link list has been languishing*, because I've got to figure out some more reasonable standard for inclusion, given the true dreck in FFN.

Another option is what painless_j does with some of her lists; she includes everything, but uses marks to indicate the better ones.


*in addition to sheer laziness and lack of time on my part...

[painless-j.livejournal.com]

Hey, I don't include everything :) I reject the *uber*-incoherent fics and fics with *terribly* bad spelling :)