Angry kitties
Jun. 6th, 2006 08:47 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icarusOh darn, I'm locked out of the ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sga_hate thread. I guess my smirking in amusement wasn't well-received. But they were so cute! It was like watching kittens arch their backs and hiss. They believe they're mean, but -- the soft fur! The teenie claws! The little high-pitched "I'm serious, darn it" growls.
I guess I shouldn't have said as much and simply continued to enjoy how mild and wank-free the SGA fandom is, relatively speaking.
Hee.
ETA: Ah, it's shut down. I was getting a 403 error instead of a 404 for some reason.
Just as well. SGA needs to let the vitriol age a little longer.
sga_hate thread. I guess my smirking in amusement wasn't well-received. But they were so cute! It was like watching kittens arch their backs and hiss. They believe they're mean, but -- the soft fur! The teenie claws! The little high-pitched "I'm serious, darn it" growls. I guess I shouldn't have said as much and simply continued to enjoy how mild and wank-free the SGA fandom is, relatively speaking.
Hee.
ETA: Ah, it's shut down. I was getting a 403 error instead of a 404 for some reason.
Just as well. SGA needs to let the vitriol age a little longer.
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Date: 2006-06-06 04:40 pm (UTC)I can't sat it'll be missed.
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Date: 2006-06-06 04:43 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 06:43 pm (UTC)I understand the big wank was over a SGA fic that portrayed Rodney in a position of power forcing himself on John -- not that John was complaining. The debate split into two camps: "That's OOC!" and "You guys just write cotton candy fluff!"
Being aware of this, I've been very careful to keep my comments very open-minded towards a variety of views concerning Last Port Of Call. I'm getting a sense that there's a burbling "I like my John portrayed a certain way" under the surface, and questions about John characterizations have surfaced in a number of SGA journals. Wank breaks out when you say "this person's right/this person's wrong" or start attacking one portrayal to defend your own.
Hmm. Both stories were dubious consent, come to think of it. I'll have something to say about that in my LJ post about Last Port Of Call.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 10:23 pm (UTC)The "good old days"? I know that I'm not into the fandom much (haven't seen it, though I have both seasons waiting for me to watch this summer, before the new season), but I know there's only two seasons. I don't think the fandom can quite claim "good old days" yet. *snickers*
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Date: 2006-06-07 08:46 pm (UTC)*snorfles* *hobbles away on my HP/LotR cane*
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 04:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 04:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 05:06 pm (UTC)It never occurs to me to wonder who starts these threads. It's probably arrogance on my part, but I always assume it's someone I probably don't know, who writes terrible fanfic dripping with purple prose -- in crayon -- and is unhappy their genius has been snubbed.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:05 pm (UTC)Yeah. It seems like those threads are usually started by somebody with a really thin skin. But that is OK becaue I think that a) blowing off steam is good and b) they are really amusing.
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Date: 2006-06-06 05:00 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 05:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 05:59 pm (UTC)What's interesting is that I read the story beginning to end to WG, and he said, "Hmm. That's nice."
Then after telling him about the discomfort of a large percentage of the readers (including those who liked it) I went through a plot summary for him.
He stopped me at the point where Rodney grabbed John's hands and said, "Okay. That's too much pressure. John should be backing off there and he isn't."
I pointed out that he hadn't noticed it before and he said, "That's probably because I'm a guy."
I'm cooking up a post about this, working through the responses and the various camps, from "John wouldn't do this" to "Rodney's not speaking up and that surprises me" to "This is exactly the way their relationship is in canon, and John's always a bit cutting."
Icarus
See, that response I *don't* get
Date: 2006-06-06 06:30 pm (UTC)Re: See, that response I *don't* get
Date: 2006-06-06 07:06 pm (UTC)I knew I couldn't expect a warm reception when I posted this. But I decided that it would change the story into something it wasn't meant to be to make John more sympathetic for the readers.
But more about that when I post the Last Port Of Call DVD commentary.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:59 pm (UTC)On the other hand... sometimes you have to take a guy's perspective with a grain of salt. Or just remember, I guess, that one guy's experience doesn't cover the entire range of guy-possibilities.
To take a salient example: Jack's tactileness, the way he touches a lot of people, including other men. I don't take that as incontrovertible proof that Jack, or RDA for that matter, is gay (though it does become useful when you're writing gay-Jack). So, say I'm adapting that. This guy friend in question will comment, "oh, that's not very guy-like, so that seems really overtly slashy to me". And I'm thinking -- well, that's not very guy-like in the milieu you've grown up in, sure (because I know he comes from a fairly uptight, half-Danish, half-Quaker family). But I grew up in a place that had lots of Italian-Americans, and let me tell you, guys touching guys in non-slashy affection? All over the place. (Which still makes me wonder how RDA developed it, but...)
So that's an example where, "what is accurate for guys?" becomes dependent, at least a bit, on subcultures within the main culture and personal experiences and all.
Similarly, with the same guy, I'll get reactions of, "guys wouldn't talk that way" -- when what I've done is based something directly on the style of discourse of my former gay male roommate and his gay male friends. Which can show you the limitations of relying on a straight guy's viewpoint for what constitutes a realistic way of writing non-straight guys. (Though really, that probably comes back to "subculture" as well -- but, my gay roommate only came out in his mid-20s, so it's not like he was completely raised within a more expressive gay male subculture; he had to have the inclination to become more expressive and to learn to externalize in the way his new subculture deemed appropriate.)
This is a disgression, not meant as an actual comment on WG's guy perspective on that fic. :) I just find it interesting. Overall, getting any guy-perspective at all is really useful, in a how do guys really talk, think, and interact sense.
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Date: 2006-06-06 05:02 pm (UTC)I dunno. Even in that brief glimpse, some of the stuff I was seeing was pretty nasty -- although I can well believe that it was nasty only in terms of the context of SGA/SG-1 fandom, and couldn't hold a candle to the everyday flamewars in some other fandoms (like HP, I'm guessing?). Though -- how usual is it in any fandom for the flamewars to be so studiously anonymous like that?
I could also look at it with some dispassion since I'm not really "in" SGA fandom as such, and I hadn't gotten up to the point where anyone being slagged was anyone I personally "know". But I could understand how it would be distressing on a number of levels to people actually *in* the fandom. I think if someone did the same thing to SG1 fandom, it would probably upset me more, and I wouldn't even go look.
I was kind of surprised that it got taken down, because it seemed like other _hate communities for different fandoms were still in operation. Which just made me wonder what made the SGA one get officially axed. Something on one of the pages of comments that I never got to, I guess.
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Date: 2006-06-06 05:27 pm (UTC)They were all just personal slags on individual fanfic writers sprinkled with a few comments about characterization.
Personal gripes? Eh. You figure they don't like the writer and can't stand that they're popular, or else the Big BNF forgot to reply to their review.
Characterization issues? John is not a wimp? Rodney is not gay? Who needs an anonymous thread for that?
Piffle. Aside from the fact that I wouldn't want to be the writers mentioned-and-mocked it's nowhere near as intense as say, accusations of pedophilia.
I was kind of surprised that it got taken down, because it seemed like other _hate communities for different fandoms were still in operation.
That is surprising. I wonder if that's because someone complained where people elsewhere haven't or if it really did cross the line. Last I saw it had been dying down.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 06:14 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 05:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 05:21 pm (UTC)Actually I was thinking of HP, LotR, House (which I know by repute more than anything else), and what I've heard from the X-Files people.
In LotR the big wanks included a faked charity event that hoodwinked hundreds of people and a wacko who thought she was Frodo, while HP gets so overblown (nothing like a large fandom for a riot) they coin their own terminology. House, well, the good writers write Greg House, king of snark, so the nastiness is finely honed before the wank hits, and then X-Files... well, I'm told there has never been anything like a fandom where the show's writers participate in the wank.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:01 pm (UTC)Ah, yes, When the Fan Hits the Shit. (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0965313646/sr=8-1/qid=1149616785/ref=sr_1_1/104-9469847-3700706?%5Fencoding=UTF8)
well, I'm told there has never been anything like a fandom where the show's writers participate in the wank
Really? Do tell!
The craziest I've seen is the person in seaQuest fandom claiming to be Jonathan Brandis reincarnated.
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:12 pm (UTC)X-Files? For details you have to talk to someone who was in the fandom (there's a lot of them out there). But the writers early on participated in the lists and they developed a following until there were cult-like camps supporting this writer over that one.
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 06:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 06:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 06:51 pm (UTC)By-the-way, WG still thinks you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Or the invention of the smooth-running AK-47, whichever analogy you prefer. ;)
Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-07 02:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-06 10:30 pm (UTC)O_o
That just ain't right.
Mm...seaQuest slash. Not much of that around anymore. :/
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Date: 2006-06-06 10:28 pm (UTC)I so can't wait for the wank from the last HP book. Oughtta be good. This last book caused some real doozies, didn't it. And let's not forget the LotRPS, particularly the Dom/Elijah fans. *shudders* Some of them people are not quite all there, imo.
I haven't seen the House wank (just started watching), but if they're anything like House is...must be quite amusing.
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Date: 2006-06-08 12:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-08 04:25 pm (UTC)Icarus
There was a SGA Hate Meme?
Date: 2006-06-06 05:45 pm (UTC)Re: There was a SGA Hate Meme?
Date: 2006-06-06 06:01 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-06 09:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-07 08:47 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2006-06-10 07:44 am (UTC)