Angry kitties

[icarus]

Oh darn, I'm locked out of the sga_hate thread. I guess my smirking in amusement wasn't well-received. But they were so cute! It was like watching kittens arch their backs and hiss. They believe they're mean, but -- the soft fur! The teenie claws! The little high-pitched "I'm serious, darn it" growls.

I guess I shouldn't have said as much and simply continued to enjoy how mild and wank-free the SGA fandom is, relatively speaking.

Hee.


ETA: Ah, it's shut down. I was getting a 403 error instead of a 404 for some reason.

Just as well. SGA needs to let the vitriol age a little longer.

Comments

[lillian78.livejournal.com]

Hey, I loved it. *huggles*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

A lot of people liked it, even when they were uncomfortable the majority of the responses were: "oh, I can see that happening, but this was a little to real to be pleasant."

What's interesting is that I read the story beginning to end to WG, and he said, "Hmm. That's nice."

Then after telling him about the discomfort of a large percentage of the readers (including those who liked it) I went through a plot summary for him.

He stopped me at the point where Rodney grabbed John's hands and said, "Okay. That's too much pressure. John should be backing off there and he isn't."

I pointed out that he hadn't noticed it before and he said, "That's probably because I'm a guy."

I'm cooking up a post about this, working through the responses and the various camps, from "John wouldn't do this" to "Rodney's not speaking up and that surprises me" to "This is exactly the way their relationship is in canon, and John's always a bit cutting."

Icarus

See, that response I *don't* get

[lillian78.livejournal.com]

"oh, I can see that happening, but this was a little to real to be pleasant." Huh? Isn't writing about the possibilities as well as the fantasy? In our fantasy, the handsome John is perfect and always fulfilling *our* wishes but when he isn't does that invalidate or lessen the fic? I'd rather see lovable!John myself but inserting his "possible" flaws might make folks uncomfortable but I think it can make for a unique and more well rounded look at the character.

Re: See, that response I *don't* get

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, I mean, there's nothing wrong with an acknowledgment that the story's uncomfortable. I found it more hot than uncomfortable though when three betas all said, "John is not a sympathetic character in this." I agreed, thought about it, and said, "So be it."

fairestcat showed me exactly where the passages where John hit a sour note for the reader -- a lot of it having to do with his inner monologue. Another beta said no way did she believe John would do this, and another said his characterization works for the story though it wasn't her cuppa. A fourth said this was definitely canon!John not fanon!John, this was a challenging story, yes, but go! Go! Post! Stop worrying.

I knew I couldn't expect a warm reception when I posted this. But I decided that it would change the story into something it wasn't meant to be to make John more sympathetic for the readers.

But more about that when I post the Last Port Of Call DVD commentary.

Icarus

[orca-girl.livejournal.com]

The "I'm a guy" perspective is really interesting. I'm writing a m/m thing in another venue in which one of my sometime-cowriters (and a good friend) is a guy, and sometimes when several of us are kicking around ideas, we'll turn to him to ask his guy-opinion about guy-reactions.

On the other hand... sometimes you have to take a guy's perspective with a grain of salt. Or just remember, I guess, that one guy's experience doesn't cover the entire range of guy-possibilities.

To take a salient example: Jack's tactileness, the way he touches a lot of people, including other men. I don't take that as incontrovertible proof that Jack, or RDA for that matter, is gay (though it does become useful when you're writing gay-Jack). So, say I'm adapting that. This guy friend in question will comment, "oh, that's not very guy-like, so that seems really overtly slashy to me". And I'm thinking -- well, that's not very guy-like in the milieu you've grown up in, sure (because I know he comes from a fairly uptight, half-Danish, half-Quaker family). But I grew up in a place that had lots of Italian-Americans, and let me tell you, guys touching guys in non-slashy affection? All over the place. (Which still makes me wonder how RDA developed it, but...)

So that's an example where, "what is accurate for guys?" becomes dependent, at least a bit, on subcultures within the main culture and personal experiences and all.

Similarly, with the same guy, I'll get reactions of, "guys wouldn't talk that way" -- when what I've done is based something directly on the style of discourse of my former gay male roommate and his gay male friends. Which can show you the limitations of relying on a straight guy's viewpoint for what constitutes a realistic way of writing non-straight guys. (Though really, that probably comes back to "subculture" as well -- but, my gay roommate only came out in his mid-20s, so it's not like he was completely raised within a more expressive gay male subculture; he had to have the inclination to become more expressive and to learn to externalize in the way his new subculture deemed appropriate.)

This is a disgression, not meant as an actual comment on WG's guy perspective on that fic. :) I just find it interesting. Overall, getting any guy-perspective at all is really useful, in a how do guys really talk, think, and interact sense.