Hmm. Do I wade back into this mess?

[icarus]

Do I do it, or not?

People in the SGA fandom were really pissed off about Last Port Of Call. The discussion started out interesting, revealing, and turned ugly. There are a couple of theories about this kicking around.

1) The "young fandom" theory, where everything's fresh and new, but the controversies haven't cropped up yet; "the explorers are the ones with the arrows in their backs";

2) The "drunken luau" theory, where yes, SGA is a fun drunken luau, but the flip side of that is that serious, challenging stories are not acceptable, the way you don't discuss the Holocaust at a cocktail party;

3) The characterization of John was really off. If I were a new writer, I'd consider it, but... no, I don't think so. I've been writing quite some time now, and characterization has always been where I'm solid. Now if someone came after me with a pitchfork about my yerk-transitions, or the stripped-down scenery ("Hello, Icarus? This is not a one-act play with a tree and a bucket, tell us where they are") or sloppily using the same word fifteen times in three pages, yeah okay.

Besides, the reaction was just too strong for it to be a simple characterization issue. Poor characterization you just go *snerk* and walk. It doesn't launch a crusade. Nor does the story get recc'd by people whose opinions I respect.

Nah. The issue was content.

But that's not what this poll is about. Or it is, but only sort of.

You see, I have another probably-guaranteed-to-be-unpopular John-fic. An SGA story where the content might fan the flames. It comes from the question:

If Rodney screws up due to hubris and ends up blowing up a solar system, and Carson screws up due to his medical curiosity and far-too-flexible ethics for the sake of his bright-eyed good intentions and fucks up a sentient being, and Weir screws up by bargaining away her principles for the sake of 'pragmatism' and gives away the position of Atlantis -- how and why does John screw up?

Okay, there are worse things in life than being controversial. But I'm feeling gun-shy. This isn't what I expected of SGA, naive of me, I know. I haven't encountered a reaction this bad since I defended slash to a group of Lord of the Rings anti-slashers in 2002 (and the arguments were eerily familar).

So, to everyone on the f-list, not just the SGA fandom who might not respond (results are viewable by none but me):

[Poll #761572]


ETA: Adds "if Carson screws up." Because "if Carson screws due to his medical curiosity and far-too-flexible ethics" has a completely different meaning.

ETA2: Wow. I'm far behind on answering everyone's comments, but that answered the question pretty thoroughly. I did not expect "er, I kinda liked Last Port" to be the strongest response, not by a long shot. So either a) the people who hated Last Port Of Call don't read my LJ (a good possibility), or b) the ones who hated it were a strident, vocal minority, and I got the wrong impression about how the story was received. Those who liked it were shouted down by those who didn't.

Either way, there's enough interest to, okay, write the Sheppard Screws Up story. But I warn you: it's het. It might not be that bad, I just... I didn't think Last Port Of Call was that controversial either.

ETA3: I'm so glad this person stopped by. Yes. Perfect example. This is the tone and nasty attitude that I've encountered over Last Port Of Call.

I've made the poll viewable to only me so that SGA readers can feel free to respond without facing problems from others. Most of the responders are SGA readers.

Comments

[jamie-pendragon.livejournal.com]

Oh my, I'm so absolutely the wrong one to vote here, but I still did, 'cause I'm a nerd like that.

I actually just stumbled over your journal via... I dunno, a moment ago I was on yukipon's art page o_O

Anyway, so I was here for like five minutes, read the post, read the story (which took my sga-fic-virginity, btw), found that I can see why some people might find it controversial, liked it loads anyway and submitted If this story isn't at least as controversial as Last Port Of Call I'm going to be very disappointed. to the poll. Which I meant to convey with a smirk, but well.

Seriously, I was very tempted to vote 'What's more important, writing what you want/need to write or how people respond? You'll never write anything good if you can't push the envelope.' though, because this is fandom, dammit, and that means it's a place for fans to do to a book/series/movie/character what they like and what the original author won't do. If someone complains that there are fics in their fandom that they don't like they didn't really grasp the concept of fandom, did they?
I mean, sure, as a fanfic author you want your work liked and it's probably deadly annoying to have to defend one's work, but... in the end, if you want to write that fic, write it, if you don't want to, don't. After all you came to the fandom for yourself, not for them, right?

wading in with my tuppenceworth again!

[lexstar29.livejournal.com]

You already know I loved LPOC, and you know I will wait hopefully and patiently for the continuation of that story should you choose to do so at some point. I have already shared my take on John and his rushing in where angels fear to tread mentality that has been referred to several times in cannon, add to that the fact that he's a man who also cannonically (if thats a word!) will sleep with a pretty girl quite easily and without much thought if she drops her keks in front of him, and you have the side of John seen in LPOC

As to the negativity that followed, it is possibly worth saying that they are called a vocal minority for a reason! whilst they may shout loud and their barbs may stick, there really aren't that many of them when you balance it out with the positive reactions.

I do love everything of yours I have ever read, precisely because you never quite know what you're going to get. When reading an Icarus fic I know it will be well written, good characterisation, but probably with something unexpected somewhere!

In summation in my humble opinin LPOC rocked, especially if it was read with an open mind and no preconceptions of who 'your' John Sheppard is, if it was read with the knowledge that everyone in the world ever since the beginning of ever is multi faceted and capable of more than one type of behaviour and it is that mindset that i hope people will read this proposed story with.

It is of course up to you entirely, you are the one who was unfairly attacked by the vocal few, but i for one really hope you write it!

I now return you to your scheduled programming.

Lexstar

Re: wading in with my tuppenceworth again!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

There were more positive responses than negative. My view of the story did get slanted.

I'm working on the John Screws Up story, though still leery, frankly.

Different fandoms have different cultures. In the Lord Of The Rings fandom you had to find out someone's feelings about slash first before you let on that you were a slash writer. I was Marileangorifurnimaluim (Maril) when I wrote meta, and Icarus when I wrote slash, and very few people knew they were one and the same person. There was a very strong religious element in the LotR community. People took it personally if you besmirched their Frodo with slash.

Harry Potter is a huge, wide open, whatever-floats-your-boat fandom. There are so many niches that you could be in the fandom for years and never realize there was a Lucius/Ginny S&M non-con community. Coordinating things across the fandom is tough, but you'd have to go looking for things that you don't like.

In SG-1, the hot buttons turned out to be not slash as a whole, but slash vs. ship. You were either in one camp or the other, largely because there was such a limited pool of characters (unlike the cast of thousands in HP and LotR).

I'm getting the impression -- and I'm not sure this is right -- but I'm getting the impression that the hot buttons in SGA are anything that treats Rodney badly (because of the deep Rodney love, which I share, but I can be a very loving sadist) and anything dark. Am I reading the SGA fandom right?

Icarus

Re: wading in with my tuppenceworth again!

[lexstar29.livejournal.com]

I'd agree with your view of the SGA hot buttons! Whilst there is a section (like us!) who not only enjoy, but actively seek out darker stories I agree that the fandom as a generalisation shys away from it, many of those I have read who write darker stuff have also been prolific in the Smallville fandom where its fairly hard to write light and fluffy given the eventual cannon end to the Clark/Lex story! I'd definitely agree with the whole Rodney love too! I'd agree thats probably why a small few reacted badly, Rodney does inspire strong devotion in many! For myself i have always loved my heroes a little dark and a little flawed, which is why i enjoy reading your work, and will continue to do so!

Lexstar

did someone say sadist?

[http://users.livejournal.com/meara_/]

I can be a very loving sadist

Prepares to stalk you for more than your fics.

I think I love you.

Re: did someone say sadist?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Who needs a dungeon when you have a handy belt and a kitchen full of deadly implements? (But use the wooden spoon sparingly. ;)

Icarus

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

I voted for the "write what you want" option, though perhaps "Er. I actually liked Last Port Of Call and wouldn't mind seeing more" is the most truly indicative of my own feelings. I'd be overjoyed to see more work from you in this darker, realistic tone, particularly a morning-after fallout sequel to LPoC. But if the negative response (which, frankly, is a small enough minority of the total response that I'd have completely blown it off were it directed toward artwork that I drew/painted) makes you genuinely uncomfortable, I don't necessarily think you should push yourself to court more of the same. Write what you'd like, in whatever direction you feel the urge to go, and let the chips fall where they may.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

To be perfectly honest, I've almost never had much in the way of a negative response to my stories. The occasional "ew, harryn (sic) ron arent (sic) gay!" sure, but nothing really vicious.

I'm about 1,600 words into the John Screws Up story (this is the first time I've written NC-17 Het) and I'm a little leery. I'm pretty tough, but the tone of the detractors got really nasty. One of them conveniently commented right after you did (http://icarusancalion.livejournal.com/517374.html?thread=6707454#t6707454), just to give you an example (according to this person you must be a Harry Potter reader *eyeroll*).

I've been in Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Stargate SG-1, and SGA fandoms, and I've never encountered anything like this. Is this the norm for SGA? Or is it just this one particular story?

Icarus

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I didn't take that comment about people unfamiliar to the fandom to mean me (or anyone else who agrees with your characterization, necessarily), so much as people upthread who confessed they were new to SGA. But I see what you mean about the negativity...the person seems put out that you dared discuss something that's troubling you in your own livejournal. Ah well, I say write as you'd like, and if the stories piss your detractors off this much, regard it as icing on the cake. ;-)

[shearebliss.livejournal.com]

You know, if you're that upset that people didn't like your characterization, there are several ways to handle it.

A) Moan a lot about it in your LJ so you can get lots and lots of people to chime in about how great your fic was

B) Accept that you see the characters as very different than the people who didn't like your characterization.

C) Consider that perhaps your interpration might be missing something and rewatch the show.

D) Moan a lot more about it in your LJ and show it to all your friends in other fandoms to see what they think.

E) Go over your fic again and see if it actually fits your vision of the characters and decide that it does and oh, well, not everyone likes everything and get over it.

For the record, I bailed before finishing it because I didn't recognize the characters. And for the record, people who have never seen the show really don't know squat when it comes to critiquing the characterization unless your argument is that the characters only have to be recognizable to you. And if that's your argument, why bother posting fic at all?