Hmm. Do I wade back into this mess?

[icarus]

Do I do it, or not?

People in the SGA fandom were really pissed off about Last Port Of Call. The discussion started out interesting, revealing, and turned ugly. There are a couple of theories about this kicking around.

1) The "young fandom" theory, where everything's fresh and new, but the controversies haven't cropped up yet; "the explorers are the ones with the arrows in their backs";

2) The "drunken luau" theory, where yes, SGA is a fun drunken luau, but the flip side of that is that serious, challenging stories are not acceptable, the way you don't discuss the Holocaust at a cocktail party;

3) The characterization of John was really off. If I were a new writer, I'd consider it, but... no, I don't think so. I've been writing quite some time now, and characterization has always been where I'm solid. Now if someone came after me with a pitchfork about my yerk-transitions, or the stripped-down scenery ("Hello, Icarus? This is not a one-act play with a tree and a bucket, tell us where they are") or sloppily using the same word fifteen times in three pages, yeah okay.

Besides, the reaction was just too strong for it to be a simple characterization issue. Poor characterization you just go *snerk* and walk. It doesn't launch a crusade. Nor does the story get recc'd by people whose opinions I respect.

Nah. The issue was content.

But that's not what this poll is about. Or it is, but only sort of.

You see, I have another probably-guaranteed-to-be-unpopular John-fic. An SGA story where the content might fan the flames. It comes from the question:

If Rodney screws up due to hubris and ends up blowing up a solar system, and Carson screws up due to his medical curiosity and far-too-flexible ethics for the sake of his bright-eyed good intentions and fucks up a sentient being, and Weir screws up by bargaining away her principles for the sake of 'pragmatism' and gives away the position of Atlantis -- how and why does John screw up?

Okay, there are worse things in life than being controversial. But I'm feeling gun-shy. This isn't what I expected of SGA, naive of me, I know. I haven't encountered a reaction this bad since I defended slash to a group of Lord of the Rings anti-slashers in 2002 (and the arguments were eerily familar).

So, to everyone on the f-list, not just the SGA fandom who might not respond (results are viewable by none but me):

[Poll #761572]


ETA: Adds "if Carson screws up." Because "if Carson screws due to his medical curiosity and far-too-flexible ethics" has a completely different meaning.

ETA2: Wow. I'm far behind on answering everyone's comments, but that answered the question pretty thoroughly. I did not expect "er, I kinda liked Last Port" to be the strongest response, not by a long shot. So either a) the people who hated Last Port Of Call don't read my LJ (a good possibility), or b) the ones who hated it were a strident, vocal minority, and I got the wrong impression about how the story was received. Those who liked it were shouted down by those who didn't.

Either way, there's enough interest to, okay, write the Sheppard Screws Up story. But I warn you: it's het. It might not be that bad, I just... I didn't think Last Port Of Call was that controversial either.

ETA3: I'm so glad this person stopped by. Yes. Perfect example. This is the tone and nasty attitude that I've encountered over Last Port Of Call.

I've made the poll viewable to only me so that SGA readers can feel free to respond without facing problems from others. Most of the responders are SGA readers.

Comments

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

discuss the Holocaust at a cocktail party;

Oops.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Kiji! It's been a while.

You laugh. I've done it. (Or an approximation.) Why are all the interesting topics off-limits?

Icarus

[ivy03.livejournal.com]

Where's the "GIMME! GIMME! GIMME!" option?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Watch me overthink this story and it turns out to be lame....

Icarus

[ninasis.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't remember reading anything negative about that story. And I have some of the most negative people in the SGA fandom on my f'list.

I read pretty much anything you write, but I can't promise to read anything too angsty (unless there's a lot of comfort to balance it out) or a deathfic. But you should definitely write whatever you want. Sure, there are a lot of folks in the SGA fandom who love to rain on other's parades - but that shouldn't stop you from doing what you enjoy. Because for every one who whines, there are a lot more of us who will enjoy and appreciate.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Well, the norm with stories people don't like is just hit the Back-button, claw at your eyes a moment, and feel grateful that didn't cost $10.95 for the paperback.

But one person I know rec'd it, and got quite an argument. Also, the comments got rather intense, if polite in the original posting on the sga_flashfic.

Then I had that cartoon moment of feeling like a flea followed by a hammer when I commented in someone else's journal and a couple people who didn't like the story in sga_flashfic followed me there (okay, ran across my comments) -- Aaaack!

Then there was the DVD commentary which went tits-up when I finally lost my temper after two weeks of heat.

The consensus for the most part was "good story" and then the qualifiers ran from "love it" to "interesting, I'm not sure John would do that" to "hateithateithateitbadwrongletmetellyouwhy!"

*does a double-take* There are negative people in the SGA fandom?

Gah. My naivete is perennial. Nothing quells my hope in the goodness of all people.

Icarus

[fluffyllama.livejournal.com]

I'd love to see the answer you come up with to that question. I'm more interested in seeing people explore the character in interesting ways than I am in reading the same fluffy!Sheppard fic a million times.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I confess that I read a lot more fluffy fics than I write. *blushes*

Hey, do you know any edgy Sheppard stories? One's that have a definite military bend to them? I'm rec'ing John/Rodney at stargateficrec this month and I've got a ton of links, but I'm feeling like a want to do a theme. Or a couple of themes.

Icarus

[cofax7]

Did it really get ugly? Because--and not to challenge your perceptions, but--I know from myself that what reads to me as someone totally slamming my story can sometimes to others read as critical but not particularly personal criticism. God knows I've seen published professionals overreact to mild criticism when it's posted in public. Which is not to say you did, but I never saw any outrage about the story. Then again, I'm not all that deep in SGA fandom, maybe someone was ranting about it.

Me, I liked the story as a very realistic interpretation of what Sheppard would likely be like, given his background and behavior in canon. Which I thought you laid out very clearly in the dvd commentary.

As for what to write next, well, write what makes you happy. Or what you want to write, anyway. Challenge yourself, or challenge the readers, or write happy fluffy bunny fic if that's what pleases you today. Overthinking audience reaction before you even start the story is, IMHO, a sure road to talking yourself out of writing at all. Serve the Story and, as they say, devil take the hindmost.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of this is author over-sensitivity. Behold a conversation with my betas:

"Icarus, you have a semi-colon out of place."

"Nonono, I have good reasons for that semi-colon being there, I thought it through -- it's a great semi-colon!" *Hyperventilates.*

*Beta calmly pats Icarus, who peers out from between her fingers* "There, there. Can we move the semi-colon now?"

"Okay."

That said, I did have some people whose responses to the story were deeply personal, and not in a good way. I got some blowback from women who had experienced this sort of manipulation from men and were very angry that I would write their John doing this to, oh no, Rodney.

The geyser was interesting for about two weeks, then got to be a bit much. Though in retrospect it was only a handful of people.

Overthinking audience reaction before you even start the story is, IMHO, a sure road to talking yourself out of writing at all.

Good point. Besides, there's no way to know how people will respond. *thinks* I never know how people are going to respond. Readers always catch me off-guard.

Icarus

[moxie-brown.livejournal.com]

People will always have favorite characters and are willing to turn a blind eye to certain traits that cool writers like you pick at like a scab. Push the envelope, bring the fandom to its knees!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Ha! I love the icon. And pick at like a scab is very apt. I confess, my favorite Season Two eps were Trinity and Michael. SG-1 is noble, even if they can't quite make things turn out perfectly. SGA just... they're just floundering. It's great!

Icarus

[godiva696.livejournal.com]

I did like Last Port of Call, and I would definitely be of the "write what you feel" camp - my feeling is that, as a reader, it would be beyond ungrateful to assume that writers are there for my pleasure alone. They are sharing their hard-earned work, and if I don't like it, tough for me.

Er, by the way, if the results are viewable only by you, should I be seeing the numbers of who voted for what, even if I did just vote? *is clueless about polls*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping the fact that it's free will be good enough to allow me to experiment.

Though I kind of am writing for people's pleasure. The fact that people enjoy the stories or find them thought-provoking is my excuse to spend such a ridiculous amount of time on a hobby.

You should be able to see the numbers once you voted, just not who voted.

Icarus

[nufaciel.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the story *yet* (I just got into the Stargate fandoms and am currently working my way through 50 pages of links for Jack/Daniel), so I haven't gotten to any SGA fics, other than the one I commented on a few days ago and a couple of Christmas ones from the SAC). But I did pic the "What's more important" option, with a close second on the "With that reaction?" one.

Exploring the characters is what makes fan fiction so much fun to write. Push that damned envelope. See where John might go in such a situation. There's nothing worse than reading the same damn cookie-cutter character over and over again, IMHO.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Push that damned envelope. See where John might go in such a situation. There's nothing worse than reading the same damn cookie-cutter character over and over again, IMHO.

Thank you. *smiles* It's a relief to hear you say that. Makes me feel a little less like it's an uphill battle to write something that's different. Like there's some support and a few angry voices shouldn't get me down. I was really surprised at how many people picked the "er, I rather liked Last Port Of Call." And also at how many people responded.

Part of what happens in SGA is the fandom is very interconnected, so people are exposed more to stories that they might not like, unlike HP where it's so sprawling and vast, no one knows every corner of it.

Okay. *nods* We'll do it.

Icarus

[giglet.livejournal.com]

Please please write what you want to write. SGA fandom may be characterized by fluffy crackfic rather than deep disturbing and/or ethics-delving stories, but that isn't all it is, or should be. It should be a group of people interested in SGA, in whatever form.

Another way to look at it: there are some truly awful writers who produce dozens of fics. They are (apparently) internally motivated. I hope you are too, because your stories can only elevate the quality of fic in the fandom.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

They are (apparently) internally motivated.

Okay, what have you written? Recs, please. Because that sort of wry observation can only make for a very good writer.

SGA fandom may be characterized by fluffy crackfic rather than deep disturbing and/or ethics-delving stories, but that isn't all it is, or should be.

I've been developing a theory that SGA is very interconnected, with its newsletters and whatnot, but that means that people are more likely to stumble across something they don't like. But it's not right to jump on an author for writing something they don't like. That has a chilling effect on the entire fandom. Then, yeah, you will get just crackfic and fluff.

Hmm. It works like this.

- Person writes angsty, dark story.
- Someone looking for fluff reads it. They flip.
- Fluff reader retaliates, saying publicly why they didn't like it, largely to affect public opinion.
- Other readers who like both fluff and angsty dark!fic read the retaliation and question their own judgment, or veer off reviewing because of the bad vibe.
- The negative response is exaggerated as a result.
- The writer goes, "Wow, that was awful" and doesn't want to write the angsty stuff any more.
- The people who like the story go with the vibe that was created and you get disclaimers when they rec it, "the characterization of Rodney was questioned, however..."

End result: people write and rec fluffy crack!fic ad infinitum, don't write the angsty dark stuff, and when people write angsty dark stuff, the rec'ers recommend it very gingerly, and only to an audience they're sure is receptive.

What do we currently have in SGA? A lot of fluffy crack!fic, it's hard to find the good dark!fic because people are cautious about rec'ing it... the symptoms fit. I would be very surprised if, in a fandom that has eps like Michael, no one's interested in writing anything dark.

I say, support your local dark!fic. Rec some today!

Icarus

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Seriously, just write whatever you want to write. If you're uncomfortable posting it, or afraid you'll get burnt then don't write it, or perhaps cultivate a thicker skin.

I'm not sure why you're asking us, except that maybe you're hoping to generate a little more controversy when you post it. Actually, that's a fair enough reason. I'd do that too! *grins*

Anyway, after this post, you'll have to write it, or a mob will probably come after you demanding the promised "Shep screws up" fic! There are probably people sharpening their pencils in preparation for a good argument right now.

I love a little controversy and I also love to see the characters explored in different ways. Sometimes I feel like I read the same fic over and over again.

I only wish I could write a story that someone would bother to think about and comment on, so just be proud of it. I love a well thought out argument with a purpose. Sounds like you got one. I'll have to check out those comments. People actually thinking! *shock/horror*


Oh and it goes without saying...write more skating!fic!!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh dear god no, I'm not seeking more controversy.

I've just tried skulking for a week or so and I'm not very good at it. It just kills me, or at least when it comes to my own journal.

I'd rather put things that are bugging me on the table and get some perspective, like picking up what I think is an ugly vase and saying (as I plunk it on the table):

"There. Ugly vase. What do you think?"

Then several people will say, "Er, yeah, that's pretty ugly."

And then someone will surprise me and say, "Actually, I rather like it. What-? It's interesting."

Then I can revise my opinion to "Interesting ugly vase. What-? It can be both interesting and ugly."

or perhaps cultivate a thicker skin.

*coughs* Yep. But that's why, other than journalism, I haven't attempted to write professionally. I might have the writing ability but I don't have a thick enough skin. Not yet. Fanfic readers invest so little in the stories -- no cash, no precious space in their magazines -- that they're very lenient.

Icarus

[amalthia]

well you are already writing the fluffy bunny skating fic...I don't think it hurts to throw in a few edgy fics now and then. :)

Okay I'll be honest, my favorite stories of yours are the ones that push the envelop. Port of Call is one of my favorite stories and i've re-read it multiple times, like five or six times now.

I love Out of Bounds too but I probably won't re-read it much, maybe once or twice.

I like stories that push characters to their limits and explores what happens. I'm not sure what got everyone's panties in a twist about Port of Call because while yes it was hot and John hurt Rodney's feelings and the sex didn't turn out like either John or Rodney had hoped....I just don't get why there is controversy? (not that controversy is bad....but normally I can see why a story provokes that sort of reaction)

there was no raping, pillaging, character assassination (anyone who can't imagine a man wanting sex before he'll "maybe" die in two weeks, obviously hasn't met too many men) John didn't drug and rape Rodney while he was passed out. No characters died, there was no underage sex... Though really I wouldn't mind more stories with raping and pillaging...but not likely to happen in this fandom.

The point is I loved Port of Call, and I really wish there were more like it. I don't mind seeing my favorite characters with flaws. I love my husband good and bad together. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes, and I like to see stories reflect that sometimes.

[cofax7]

Actually, I think that's why Port of Call got such a strong reaction. It's not seperis's AU, with its complete crackaddled premise and baroquely dark characterizations. Port of Call is very realistic and some people really don't want that element in their fantasy/comfort-reading. Fic is, for many people, comfort-reading. Not everyone, and everyone wants something different at various points. But a significant part of fandom is usually on the hunt for happy-ending romances, with a bit of angst or comedy on the way. Stories that challenge the romance tropes can be seen as unsettling.

Just MHO, of course.

[plsteward.livejournal.com]

This got my vote- What's more important, writing what you want/need to write or how people respond? You'll never write anything good if you can't push the envelope.

But I was v. tempted to hit- If this story isn't at least as controversial as Last Port Of Call I'm going to be very disappointed. or *stages a coup* Not until the skating!fic is done!

Honestly, as long as you're happy with your work, not going to breakdown if people backlash when you start to delve into the darkness that SGA canon has & tarnish their shiny boy-hero-person, then do it. I'll cheerlead & rec & all that if you do; love fic that makes me wonder or feel like crap (maybe I'm a masochist or sadist, or just like deep fic.) SGA fandom is happy bubbly & v. superficial really.

There aren't a ton of deep fics but the ones that are have all rocked my socks & made me beg for more while weeping over the state of my ethics & theirs too. I don't get why there isn't more dark!fic or character pieces because canon's given us a ton of stuff to work with. LPoC was great & I just don't see why there aren't more yeas than nays from your initial feedback.

But you know, if you can't deal with making people cry or throw tomatoes why in the world would you even think about the imperfect side of John?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

why in the world would you even think about the imperfect side of John?

I can't help it. And usually in fandom people don't throw tomatoes, they just look at their friends and say, "Wow, I wish I'd hit that Back button sooner."

I just don't see why there aren't more yeas than nays from your initial feedback.

It was mostly yeas, but the nays (about three-four people?) were strident and calculated to discourage me from writing any more such fics by attacking me as author. Very similar to what happened with the anti-slashers back in 2002. Only with the anti-slashers I knew what I was getting into. This caught me completely by surprise.

There aren't a ton of deep fics but the ones that are have all rocked my socks & made me beg for more while weeping over the state of my ethics & theirs too.

I'm looking for more deep fics, and hoping to rec some at stargateficrec. Do you have any that you've found?

Icarus

[theemdash]

What I just read was, "Hey Em, I keep talking about this fic you haven't read. You still haven't read it, huh? Oh. Okay." So now I'm reading it. Because I want to know what all the fuss is about.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Hah. Yeah, let me know if you think it's controversial. When I wrote that father/son incest I was prepared for some people to be squicked, but the reaction here caught me completely off-guard. I figured people would mostly be annoyed at where I left it.

Icarus

[dossier.livejournal.com]

LPOC was awesome in its ability to provoke. Probably not exactly what you were hoping for, but even if it made me a little uneasy? More power to you. Go for it. I *love* stories that make me uneasy. Someone dies? Great! Loses their conscience and does horrible things for the right reason, or just because they're built that way? Yay!

I see the schmoop completely taking over, and there is a serious lack of stories that really examine the ramifications of the WTF stuff they are doing on the series--SG1 did stuff, but they didn't screw up often. Atlantis is like leaving two strung out teenagers home alone for a week with the key to the liquor cabinet in comparison to SG1 (hey, there's a story in that!)

It's not bad, the schmoop, but I guess I'm really thinking of the last *rilly* big fandom that I was active in when it was hot--the X-Files. Man, they were torturing people, having them go insane, chopping up brains, committing suicide or murder, overdosing on heroine (one of my favorites), etc etc etc. Granted, the tone & nature of the series made it sort of the obvious go-wild-choice, but using LJV's coffee scale, most of the stories in SGA would rate some where in the double milk and sugar category.

You wrote one of the the best, truly inflinching HP stories of all time, and I respect you for that. I would love to see a trend away from the insulin-inducing stories, but alas--I fear we are out numbered.

I can't imgaine what its like to suddenly have what seems like the entire fandom breathing down you neck for your authorial choices, has to be at least disconcerting and dismaying, but if it's any consolation, I am so there with you.

Ahem. I guess I'll slowly back away from the mic...

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

using LJV's coffee scale

*interested look* Who's LJV, and what's the coffee scale?

You wrote one of the the best, truly inflinching HP stories of all time, and I respect you for that.

Thank you. You mean Beg Me For It, right?

most of the stories in SGA would rate some where in the double milk and sugar category ... I can't imgaine what its like to suddenly have what seems like the entire fandom breathing down you neck for your authorial choices, has to be at least disconcerting and dismaying, but if it's any consolation, I am so there with you.

It is. (And thank you.)

What's disturbed me is the oppressive sense that the fandom was being policed.

Usually if you don't like something you just hit the Back button, not post a comment saying how the author was wrong to ever write such a story in the first place.

If this is the reaction that something this mild gets, then I'm not surprised the fandom is filled with cotton candy. I'm pretty tough, and this was enough to discourage even me. If the fandom wants to remain open to more challenging stories, then we need to inform the "cops" when they do this that they are not speaking for the fandom.

It's very easy for a vocal minority to sound like they speak for everyone. I was convinced. Despite the positive comments, I really was under the impression that Last Port Of Call was wildly unpopular because of the strident nature of those who complained. I'm floored that the majority of votes in the poll say that they liked the story. That I did not expect.

Icarus

[september1967.livejournal.com]

I also liked Port of call and am still waiting for sequel but yeah, doesn't mean i wil llike it nor that it should matter to you if i do or not if its what you want to do...

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Cool. Any sequel to Last Port Of Call is on hold until the dust settles and I don't feel like I'm answering the critics or defending John. The story has to unfold naturally, not be forced into a mold by public opinion, whether for or against. :)

Icarus

[florahart]

Um, so you didn't know I was reading because I wasn't because I don't know jack about this series, except I've seen a few episodes and fallen completely and utterly in love with McKay. So I've been poking around I've read a few fics--so far all really quite nice, because I'm pretty much sticking with authors I already know are good, or recs of folks I trust, so I'm happy about that.

Anyway. I liked this fic, which I just read, and am not sure what was alarming about the content, but I like the play of uncertainty, certainty, friendship, fucking up, and tension. My two cents.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Not a single Harry Potter reader has been even remotely fazed by this story. Which, given I've been writing HP for the last four-five years explains why I was so surprised the reaction in the SGA fandom.

I'm disturbed less by the fact that people didn't like it (plenty of people hate my stories -- c'mon, Percy/Arthur?) than by how some felt the need to tell me how much they hated it, why, and attempted to sell me on the idea that John would nevernevernever do this.

I had the distinct sensation that the SGA fandom was being policed by some self-appointed... guardians of the fandom. That sort of chilling environment can only be very, very bad for the writers, and therefore, bad for the fandom. If this happens a lot then I can see why the fandom has a reputation for lite fic.

Not to say that I haven't seen this before. Back in 2002, the Ron/Harry pairing had some very big fans on FAP who "policed" their pairing on Fiction Alley and ff.net, and they really wanted warm, romantic stories. I took some heat from them over Primer to the Dark Arts because Ron was too mean to Harry (fortunately for me Ron/Harry wasn't the main pairing). I spoke with a couple authors at the time (I think one was switchknife) who said that they didn't write Harry/Ron anymore because of the complaints.

This effectively killed the pairing until they finally left HP around 2004, and then authors like helenish were left to write the pairing in peace. If she'd written "Close Enough" in 2002 she would've gotten an earful.

Icarus

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

I wanted to answer this even though I chose "I have no opinion," because I do sort of have an opinion, but maybe just not on the question you're asking. *g*

If Rodney screws up due to hubris and ends up blowing up a solar system,

My take on that episode was that, yes, Rodney was arrogant and he screwed up, but Rodney's main screw-up was in not listening to Zelenka--not taking his opinions seriously into account, and in letting his emotions about the death of the other scientist affect his judgment. Rodney knew that Zelenka tended to be overly cautious, but still, it was a mistake not to give Zelenka's ideas and opinions more careful thought.

However, Caldwell, Weir, and Sheppard were all for whatever it was Rodney wanted to do. The decision to go ahead was Weir's with pressure from Caldwell and a promise from Sheppard that he'd not let Rodney get out of control. I can understand their reactions after, but I don't think Rodney betrayed them and I think they all let him down, and then blamed him for their own failings. *g*

Just my take, possibly colored by my overwhelming love for Rodney. *g* And it really has nothing to do with what you're writing about here... *g*

"if Carson screws due to his medical curiosity

Bwah! This reminds me of the time my mother called the eye doctor and asked the receptionist if she needed to make an appointment for a screw. When the receptionist stopped laughing, the answer was no. *g*

Anyway, I don't read SGA fic, for the most part, though I think I have read at least a few of your SGA stories as they come through my flist. I think I'm odd when it comes to reading fic, because I don't read for good stories (though yours are always good), but to fuel my obsession with a particular character or show. SGA is a fun show to watch, but I'm just not that into it to want to read fic about it--at least not yet. *g* (Also, I adore McShep, but I found most fic about them boring. This was long before you started writing SGA fic, so I don't mean for you to take that personally. *g* It's just boring because I don't love the characters the way that I love Daniel on SG-1. I'm even ruined from reading regular fiction, too. I pick up a book and think, "No Daniel? Why bother?" *g* It's terrible. I mostly only read nonfiction books nowadays because of this.)

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

P.S. My comment really has nothing at all to do with your post, so I don't even know why I wrote it, but...I do think you should write whatever you like--what interests you. *g*

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

I hope this doesn't drive you in the *opposite* direction. I'd love to see you take the John in LPoC and bringing about a deeper relationship between him and Rodney while keeping him consistent. It would be immensely satisfying and tricky. (I got the impression from the story that is was a possible future, and maybe you thought of a sequel?) But my own fic-wishes aside I'd read what you wrote and, if it was typical of you, probably enjoy it.

Your stories are interesting, enjoyable, and thought-provoking. Whatever makes you keep doing that is good by me. I'd have loved to engage fully in discussing Last Port if it could have been done without anyone getting hurt or wigging out. I'm an advocate of multiple takes on the personality and behavior of characters, and that version of him was one of the range of possible Johns IMHO.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'd have loved to engage fully in discussing Last Port if it could have been done without anyone getting hurt or wigging out. I'm an advocate of multiple takes on the personality and behavior of characters, and that version of him was one of the range of possible Johns IMHO.

I would have loved to have that conversation. John is like Snape in the Harry Potter fandom -- there's a range of Johns.

But it would have had to happen in more general terms, not over a story that for me had been picked apart in 172 comments for two solid weeks plus an ambush in someone else's journal -- and for others, not over a story that apparently felt too much like some sexual abuse they'd experienced. As meta it would have worked.

I'd love to see you take the John in LPoC and bringing about a deeper relationship between him and Rodney while keeping him consistent. It would be immensely satisfying and tricky. (I got the impression from the story that is was a possible future, and maybe you thought of a sequel?)

That was the plan, in fact, I published the outline of the story as a separate piece. But for now I feel like I'd be rehabilitating John if I wrote it, and I've never felt he needed that.

Icarus

[http://users.livejournal.com/meara_/]

Allow me to preface this comment with the fact that I've only read one other SGA fic and it was one of yours. I've never even seen the TV show. I'm firmly entrenched in HP fandom.

But...

I read this fic and loved it! I loved the internal dialogue that John had going on. I loved the whole "oh for fuck sake can we just get the show on the road already" mentality he had. I loved that when dealing with Rodney he wasn't overly snarky...er... Or any more snarky than the average dude who may die in a couple of weeks and has an agenda and a frustrating I really want it-no I don't-yes I do sexual partner.

I wonder if people are confusing John's internal dialogue -which is being interpreted as date rapish- with his actual actions, while a bit brusque at times, are not overly coercive.

As for issues about characterization I can only assume that you've pushed a few buttons there.

Feel free to come back to HP fandom and write a non con/coercion fic where Snape is forcing Harry. Um....

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I wonder if people are confusing John's internal dialogue -which is being interpreted as date rapish- with his actual actions, while a bit brusque at times, are not overly coercive.

Good point! Yes, there's a huge difference between what John thinks and what he actually says/does, and he's much more impatient (and unfiltered and unpleasant) in his mind.

Feel free to come back to HP fandom and write a non con/coercion fic where Snape is forcing Harry. Um....

I have to admit, the HP crowd that I've shown this story are a little more, shall we say, experienced? Universally they've laughed and said, "What the hell's wrong with this?" and "Wow, this is mild. Are you sure this is the story people were upset about?"

Icarus

[greenling.livejournal.com]

...Dude, I don't even watch SGA and you've just made me like this Carson. Are any of your stories about him?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I've never written about Carson, but now you've made me want to.

Icarus

[tiekas.livejournal.com]

I thought Last Port of Call was excellent. I'd like to see more stories like this and more of *it*. Thanks for having the guts to write and post in a sometimes hostile environment.
Tiekas

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I don't know about guts -- I didn't know it was going to be hostile. But I do know the possibility is there now, so this poll is testing the waters first.

Icarus

[stellahobbit.livejournal.com]

I voted for the 'write whatever you want to write' option, but I would have loved to also tick the skating!fic one ;-)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*g* The skating fic is rolling along in fairly small pieces at this point, and you know how far I have to go with that one. I've had this other story planned since before I wrote Last Port Of Call.

Icarus

[lillian78.livejournal.com]

Hey, you know me I *love* "Port of Call". However, I must say I was a wee bit tempted to vote for the coup on your lovely skating fic. Hee.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

The skating fic will keep going, it's just that while I've some time free I really meant to be writing this other story, but after all hell broke loose over Last Port Of Call I put it on hold.

Icarus

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

I was torn between 3 answers 1) Why are you even asking this? Of course, write what you want. I don't promise to *like* it. 2 Er. I actually liked Last Port Of Call and wouldn't mind seeing more. and 3 *stages a coup* Not until the skating!fic is done! . I chose 1 because really I can't promise to like every story an author writes. I have many favored authors, both in fanfiction and professionally published who write something that I just don't connect to. In that case I usually either stop reading, or put it in the didn't care for that category, or forget about it. That said I liked LPOC and I really would like a sequel showing the fallout, especially Rodney's POV. OTOH, I really love the skating fic and would hate to have that delayed too long. In any case I'm sure I will certainly try anything you write, and I expect to enjoy it.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, of course. If you loved everything that I've written then that would probably mean that my stories are too much alike.

It reminds me of the time that I asked a friend to beta the sequel to her favorite story of mine. She was so thrilled, couldn't wait to see what happened next and -- oh, man, was she ever disappointed. There wasn't a single thing she liked about the sequel.

Icarus

[fullygoldy.livejournal.com]

Hey, what happened to multiple choice? I want to click on buttons 1,2,5,8,9 & 10!! So I guess 8 would be the most correct response?

PS, in case I never said before, "Last Port of Call" rang true to life for me, so I didn't really worry about whether or not the characterization was too over-the-top. It worked for me.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Ah, I have learned that when there are multiple stories in the offing, never offer to do them all at once unless you have cloning ability.

Icarus