Hmm. Do I wade back into this mess?

[icarus]

Do I do it, or not?

People in the SGA fandom were really pissed off about Last Port Of Call. The discussion started out interesting, revealing, and turned ugly. There are a couple of theories about this kicking around.

1) The "young fandom" theory, where everything's fresh and new, but the controversies haven't cropped up yet; "the explorers are the ones with the arrows in their backs";

2) The "drunken luau" theory, where yes, SGA is a fun drunken luau, but the flip side of that is that serious, challenging stories are not acceptable, the way you don't discuss the Holocaust at a cocktail party;

3) The characterization of John was really off. If I were a new writer, I'd consider it, but... no, I don't think so. I've been writing quite some time now, and characterization has always been where I'm solid. Now if someone came after me with a pitchfork about my yerk-transitions, or the stripped-down scenery ("Hello, Icarus? This is not a one-act play with a tree and a bucket, tell us where they are") or sloppily using the same word fifteen times in three pages, yeah okay.

Besides, the reaction was just too strong for it to be a simple characterization issue. Poor characterization you just go *snerk* and walk. It doesn't launch a crusade. Nor does the story get recc'd by people whose opinions I respect.

Nah. The issue was content.

But that's not what this poll is about. Or it is, but only sort of.

You see, I have another probably-guaranteed-to-be-unpopular John-fic. An SGA story where the content might fan the flames. It comes from the question:

If Rodney screws up due to hubris and ends up blowing up a solar system, and Carson screws up due to his medical curiosity and far-too-flexible ethics for the sake of his bright-eyed good intentions and fucks up a sentient being, and Weir screws up by bargaining away her principles for the sake of 'pragmatism' and gives away the position of Atlantis -- how and why does John screw up?

Okay, there are worse things in life than being controversial. But I'm feeling gun-shy. This isn't what I expected of SGA, naive of me, I know. I haven't encountered a reaction this bad since I defended slash to a group of Lord of the Rings anti-slashers in 2002 (and the arguments were eerily familar).

So, to everyone on the f-list, not just the SGA fandom who might not respond (results are viewable by none but me):

[Poll #761572]


ETA: Adds "if Carson screws up." Because "if Carson screws due to his medical curiosity and far-too-flexible ethics" has a completely different meaning.

ETA2: Wow. I'm far behind on answering everyone's comments, but that answered the question pretty thoroughly. I did not expect "er, I kinda liked Last Port" to be the strongest response, not by a long shot. So either a) the people who hated Last Port Of Call don't read my LJ (a good possibility), or b) the ones who hated it were a strident, vocal minority, and I got the wrong impression about how the story was received. Those who liked it were shouted down by those who didn't.

Either way, there's enough interest to, okay, write the Sheppard Screws Up story. But I warn you: it's het. It might not be that bad, I just... I didn't think Last Port Of Call was that controversial either.

ETA3: I'm so glad this person stopped by. Yes. Perfect example. This is the tone and nasty attitude that I've encountered over Last Port Of Call.

I've made the poll viewable to only me so that SGA readers can feel free to respond without facing problems from others. Most of the responders are SGA readers.

Comments

[plsteward.livejournal.com]

This got my vote- What's more important, writing what you want/need to write or how people respond? You'll never write anything good if you can't push the envelope.

But I was v. tempted to hit- If this story isn't at least as controversial as Last Port Of Call I'm going to be very disappointed. or *stages a coup* Not until the skating!fic is done!

Honestly, as long as you're happy with your work, not going to breakdown if people backlash when you start to delve into the darkness that SGA canon has & tarnish their shiny boy-hero-person, then do it. I'll cheerlead & rec & all that if you do; love fic that makes me wonder or feel like crap (maybe I'm a masochist or sadist, or just like deep fic.) SGA fandom is happy bubbly & v. superficial really.

There aren't a ton of deep fics but the ones that are have all rocked my socks & made me beg for more while weeping over the state of my ethics & theirs too. I don't get why there isn't more dark!fic or character pieces because canon's given us a ton of stuff to work with. LPoC was great & I just don't see why there aren't more yeas than nays from your initial feedback.

But you know, if you can't deal with making people cry or throw tomatoes why in the world would you even think about the imperfect side of John?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

why in the world would you even think about the imperfect side of John?

I can't help it. And usually in fandom people don't throw tomatoes, they just look at their friends and say, "Wow, I wish I'd hit that Back button sooner."

I just don't see why there aren't more yeas than nays from your initial feedback.

It was mostly yeas, but the nays (about three-four people?) were strident and calculated to discourage me from writing any more such fics by attacking me as author. Very similar to what happened with the anti-slashers back in 2002. Only with the anti-slashers I knew what I was getting into. This caught me completely by surprise.

There aren't a ton of deep fics but the ones that are have all rocked my socks & made me beg for more while weeping over the state of my ethics & theirs too.

I'm looking for more deep fics, and hoping to rec some at stargateficrec. Do you have any that you've found?

Icarus

[plsteward.livejournal.com]

Here are the better fics, the ones that I've either re-read or am thinking about re-reading. But like I said there aren't too many out.

In the City of Seven Walls is brilliant. It doesn't exactly examine the worst in the players, but rather a worst case situation with mentioned character death, slaves, drugs, & non-con sex.

http://www.eternalvox.net/~auburn/citysevenindex.html
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Seperis wrote a John drabble/short that was really rather dark & was rather like a punch in the gut. It started from a comment speculation on if John would sell himself for a ZPM.

http://seperis.livejournal.com/334088.html
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Scheherazade by in_wintertime. This is about memories & the loss or rather potential of losing Rodney's & the reactions of everyone but Rodney to it. It's long & thoughtful & not quite dark but flirts with angst the entire time.

http://in-wintertime.livejournal.com/3985.html
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Your Cowboy Days Are Over by samdonne. Memories again, but this time John is selling is to pay an advanced society to keep he, Teyla, & his wraith made son alive & in better housing. It gets dark, it deals with not only the ethics of memories & the selling of, but also with caring for a challenged child, working with those who tried to kill you but say 'no hard feelings, it was just a job.' & how far a dad will got to keep his kid safe.

http://www.butcheredart.net/Fiction/YourCowboyDays.html
=====

If that's not enough you could try the Pegasus B comm where they have a nice dark AU of an AU where Ba'al is waiting in Atlantis for the expidition & takes John, Daniel, & Teyla as slaves & pretty much kills anyone who shows any form of rebellion. Ba'al dies & the reconstruction is painful, messed up, & yet still addictive.

http://community.livejournal.com/pegasus_b

[plsteward.livejournal.com]

Oh oops, the Seperis thing. It wasn't truely a story, but rather an almost outline for one that my messed up mind translatated into a story between the time I read it & now. It was great, brilliant even, but not a true story. If you don't mind it stradling the line between meta & fic, read. It's wonderful & thought provoking. I just thought I should correct that.

[amalthia]

I'm looking for more deep fics, and hoping to rec some at stargateficrec. Do you have any that you've found?

one of my absolute favorite alternate looks at John is in this story....Incision by karamarie_mckay This really went to a dark place for John's character and made me believe it's possible.

Then of course there is the wonderful z_rayne story Strange Attractors Neither John or Rodney escape unscathed from this one.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh, hee. I was going to ask you. You've already pointed me to some good ones.

I've never read anything by Karamarie_McKay, though of course I love Zoe. *runs off to read*

Icarus

[amalthia]

karamarie_mckay changed her name from Kharessa.

[amalthia]

just realized that z_rayne has moved her website....

Here is the new link for Strange Attractors