The Irony Knows No Bounds.

[icarus]

The Irony Knows No Bounds

You know, reading trinityofone's recent post, I'd like to say in a note of complete and utter irony, I have only one quote that I've borrowed:

In the Harry Potter AU, Beg Me For It, I refer to "Lucius and the Death Eaters" sounding like a rock band.

Where did it originate?

Cassandra Claire.

I thought that I'd read the Draco Trilogy after I wrote Beg Me For It. I wasn't a Harry/Draco or a Gen fan, preferring Harry/Ron and Harry/Snape. If it was Gen, I wasn't interested if it didn't have Snape. I know I finally read the DT somewhere in Jan-Mar of 2003 (after people complained about it... and I saw the quote "I dreamed I was a slice of lemon is a giant martini" on Fiction Alley and couldn't resist). I wrote Beg Me For It in Feb 2003.

Three years later I'm a wee bit fuzzy. *head scratching* Maybe the quote just stuck in my mind? Readers have pointed it out to me and while I've stuck with my original belief, I'm actually not quite sure any more.

At any rate, if there's anyone who won't complain, it's Cassandra Claire. *g*

Comments

[noblerot.livejournal.com]

ZOMG U PLAJERIST!!121

*callz ur publisher*
*callz ur hubbie*
*callz ur motha*
*callz teh police*
*callz jerry springer*
*haz lunch*
*takez nap*

Aiiiii!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

im doomed, omg!

My screaming fangirls will now eat you alive. With salt.

*whistles*

*one elderly fan on crutches limps forward*

ur in trouble now!

[ncp.livejournal.com]

*snerk* Somehow I don't think she'll mind.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'll let you know if I hear from her lawyer.

Icarus

[libitina]

That's really rather excellent.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty darned amused.

Icarus

[sarka.livejournal.com]

*snerk*

*dies from irony*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*splutters with laughter*

[sarka.livejournal.com]

You shouldn't! Irony is a very painful Cause of Death!

*winks*

[florahart]

At any rate, if there's anyone who won't complain, it's Cassandra Claire. *g*

...yes she will.

Isn't that the thrust of a whole bunch of other Cassie-related wank? That she did all this but threw a fit when Aja used a similar idea as her? Maybe I'm confusing wanks. Heh.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

No, seriously. Did she? *laughs*

I found white_serpent's account histrionic, so biased as to be untrustworthy (except for her side-by-side comparisons of quotes which were great), and just unreadable.

I'm tempted to do a post on "How To Write An Expose," with basic journalistic techniques, how to win over your audience, developing credibility.

Icarus

[florahart]

That's what I hear. The whole thing is before my time.

I skimmed a lot of the not-side-by-side, but did read most of the directly quote email exchanges in which there were conflicting stories. Absorbing for the scope of stupid, anyway.

[ncp.livejournal.com]

Apparently, Aja wrote her story BEFORE Cassie, but Cassie got mad because... Oh I don't know, something wanky.

I'm SO glad I'm not a BNF. An ego that massive would be a huge burden.

[cheshyre]

IFF you want to read the gory details, here's Aja's take on it

She's since unlocked the fic in question if you want to compare with what she's accused of copying...

[novembersnow.livejournal.com]

I found white_serpent's account histrionic, so biased as to be untrustworthy (except for her side-by-side comparisons of quotes which were great), and just unreadable.

I felt exactly the same way. Most of it was dull, and where it wasn't dull, it made me roll my eyes, to the point where I told someone recently that the bad_penny saga made me feel more sympathetic toward Cassie, if that's who her opposition was.

But, yeah, the side-by-side stuff was fascinating, and quite educational.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

... as for the SG:A fic modelled on The American President which trinityofone mentions, I wish it were still up - I'll read any amount of Sorkin, anywhere, anyhoo.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't know much about that situation, though if I were guessing I'd say that person who wrote it was "unclear on the concept" and just substituted names. That was the problem, right?

Icarus

[shezan.livejournal.com]

I think. I'd love to read it, mind you.

(And after all, why not? If you say you've reframed TAP in another universe? Could be funny.)

[dkwilliams.livejournal.com]

This whole mess has got me unnerved, I can tell you. I mean, I can definitely understand the upset about taking pages and pages from other people's work and claiming it as your own - that's definitely plagerism. No if-ands-or-buts. But now it's branching into talks about crediting even one line taken from somewhere else, and crediting everything specifically line by line - we're all getting so paranoid that pretty soon, the author notes will be longer than the stories!

And then there's the whole fusion thing of putting together a book or movie together with a show. I've participated in those in the HP fandom, have 3 fused stories written, and there was never a problem with anyone writing the challenges or reading the stories anyone read. I know that when I write fusion stories, I read or watch the source a half-dozen times, absorbing it, and then write my version. Sometimes lines from the source are incorporated, or paraphrased, but I've always credited the original and never thought anything about it. Now I'm paranoid and I've gone back to add even more disclaimers, and I'm worried about the new story I'm writing - which actually doesn't have any lines from the original movie which was pretty dated, but it does have dialog from SGA and I don't know how much I need to put in my notes about that. Is it okay to say "some dialog from 1st Season episodes included" or do I need to say "in Chapter 6, the dialog between Rodney and Carson comes from the first scene in 'Hide&Seek'"? Frankly, I'm confused.

[cheshyre]

Personally...

If it's an HP fic, I'm not going to be upset to see uncredited HP lines in there. Likewise for any other fic wrt lines from that source. If it's a fic of X universe or even X&Y, then finding stuff from X&Y is to be expected.
Part of the CC problem is it's a HP fic with stuff from elsewhere that folks may not have been expecting (I've found quote sites on the web that attribute various lines from Buffy and elsewhere to CC).

And, I think, the other reason this is wank instead of old news is the way CC handled it.
If someone points something out and you slap your forehead, say D'oh!, post something like Icarus did above, I don't think anybody's going to hold it against you.
But bad_penny recounts shifting, contradictory, and sometimes untrue excuses (such as the nonexistent "single volume omnibus" edition of Pamela Dean)... what seems more like CYA than any genuine sentiment.
And that kind of behavior gets people's dander up.

All IMO, of course.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

But now it's branching into talks about crediting even one line taken from somewhere else, and crediting everything specifically line by line - we're all getting so paranoid that pretty soon, the author notes will be longer than the stories!

That's what trintyofone was saying.

Personally, I think the issue of the individual quotes is being conflated with Cassandra Claire's original plagiarism because people are so angry with her. So you get "she's a plagiarist -- and then she did this, too! And then--!"

Icarus

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

Well, it seems to me that the answer to the author's note problem would be to, you know, not use lines you took from other people. And yes, sometimes you're making a pop culture reference and that's fine, and sometimes you just forget that turn of phrase came from somewhere else and that's fine too, but honestly.

Besides, none of this applies to things taken from the source that's being ficced. But there's a difference between writing, say, Casablanca set in the Farscape universe, and lifting obscure dialogue from Casablanca for your use in a Farscape story. In the first case, you aren't taking credit for what you've lifted; in the second, you are.

[faithfulreader.livejournal.com]

I had a worse case :D I started my own fic, wrote half of it and then read other person's fic... which contained all the major ideas of *my* fic. I had a sudden deasire to accuse myself of plagiarism :D

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this sort of coincidence isn't the same as plagiarism.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I noticed you friended me (hi!) and I skimmed down your LJ. My post about the Draco Trilogy is f-locked (to 730 people, heh), but just so you know, while I try to be fair, I'm pretty critical of Pamela Dean copying. Are you comfortable with that? Because I have a feeling you've friended me over my comments about the DT in titti's LJ.

Icarus