So, is this John? A five minute quiz. Lysacek & "How To Pick Music"

[icarus]

Sick of me yet? *g*

Stuffy head remains. Breathing is... *breathes in*... almost restored. Viral infection and bronchitis may have been averted in my case.

So. An Out Of Bounds Quiz. It takes five minutes to complete, respond in comments:

Is this John Sheppard?

Or do we need more fire? *eyebrows raise*


ETA: Another of the same skater

ETA 2: Okay, now this is very John. Same skater but not as good (probably injured), very focused on just landing the jumps

Comments

[perfica.livejournal.com]

I can see John in that skater - the same body type, the casual clothes, the way his movements are relaxed and free-flowing (especially his arm movements) but I can't see him dancing to that type of music or being that confident in his dancing ability. That guy had a loose-bodied charm that I don't think John's going to get no matter how hard he and Rodney try. It's something inbuilt and can't be taught.

Although he's well-aware of how pleasing his body and looks are to people. I just don't think it translates into moves.

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

That guy had a loose-bodied charm that I don't think John's going to get no matter how hard he and Rodney try.

Yes, that was exactly my thought. And I think John would be much stiffer in the arms; he doesn't gesture a lot when he speaks, and when he does it comes off as dorky and planned.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*notes* He's the right body type. I won't answer with what I think yet, not until I hear more. *cheeky grin*

(See? I can speak Aussie, too!)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh. I just noticed your icon. Wow. Who drew that?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I give in. I was going to hold out on the commentary longer but I can't resist. *g*

I agree with you, John's nowhere near the dancer he is and never will be, though the Elvis portion of the routine is closer. Also, John is more intense and sharper on the jumps, and skates with more speed, especially in the spins.

teaphile has a really insightful comment on the arm movements. I hadn't noticed that but she's right. *is impressed*

So less dance, more jumps and athleticism. The casual looseness, that's how John is right now, that works. Lycacek shows John's intensity on occasion in his formal programs, but yeah, I need to find a more intense skater.

The hip-hop piece, no, quite true, not John's style. The closest John would ever get is some gay bar techno. ;)

Let's see if my responding so early causes people to not comment. (Hope not.)

Icarus

[rike-tikki-tavi.livejournal.com]

You think that guy needs more fire?!?

First part I can't see mostly because of the music. Though I liked the part where he's sliding on his knees. *pictures John in that pose* Mmmmm.... Sorry, where was I?

Get Rhythm might actually work after lots and lots more work with Rodney. The Elvis piece should appeal to John the speed fiend, but god, that Lycacek guy is light years ahead of him. As perfica said, it takes lots of confidence to do a piece like that plus that guy's not skating, he's dancing on ice. Not getting that is exactly John's problem.

Actually I thought, if Rodney had managed to keep up with the jumps and kept competing, he might have one day developed a point of view, where he takes skating serious but not to serious and has enough of a sense of humor about it, to do something like that.

Just for you.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*takes notes*

Actually, I'm letting you guys in on the research I've been doing on Out Of Bounds all along. I've been doing stuff like this pretty much every week, sometimes every day, for months. Downloading skating vids. Watching different skating moods and moves and styles. Looking for skaters like my boys. Picking out and editing (oh my god, editing) music.

where he takes skating serious but not to serious and has enough of a sense of humor about it, to do something like that.

Oooooh. You don't know Rodney's skating style. I'll find a vid of Bowman that's close, but for now I'll give you a peek ahead in the story.

*

Radek had found that if he watched the figure skaters long enough, friends and "interested parties" would soon filter away, bored. It would be only a matter of time before Radek could easily give them the slip. He checked his watch: 5:30am. He and Rodney would be leaving for Amsterdam in a few hours. He leaned his chin on folded arms on the hard railing and watched Rodney from a dozen rows up in the stands. Though he would never tell Rodney that he did this, or else he would have too many questions about what he thought, was this good, was that good.

Rodney looked different skating. Strong. Radek couldn't tell if he was better than his Soviet competition, but he was definitely good, moving smoothly from one element to another, landing solidly.

He could see why Rodney was a star.

Radek did not like figure skating in his homeland. They were ballerinas on ice skates, their chins in the air, so serious. But Rodney, now, he made it look like fun.

His gestures were too exaggerated, almost funny, like he was teasing the other skaters. Or maybe even mocking figure skating itself. He skated a broad circle, one leg carving the ice, the other bent, an arm flung out dramatically as if greeting the sky. Radek snickered.

The music was suddenly cut off. "Now Rodney…."

Rodney's coach was a big man, with rounded shoulders and wispy white hair, soft-voiced. And slightly shaky today. Radek burrowed his chin into his hands, leaning forward to listen.

"You have to give it your all. I want everything you have. These are the best of the best and you've only one shot at this. This isn't the Worlds. There is no next year."

"Yes, yes," Rodney interrupted impatiently with a gesture like he was brushing away a fly.

But the man continued as relentless as a steamroller, clearly used to Rodney. "Four years from now who knows what you'll be doing -- or if I'll be your coach, or even in this world."

"Relax, Marc," Rodney laughed it off. "You're not planning on shuffling off this mortal coil today are you? This week? It'll be fine."

"Everything you've got, Rodney," he said in a gruff, strangled warning tone, wagging a finger. "If you have it, I want to see it."

A frown dented Radek's brow. His tucked in his chin as he drew away from his arms on the railing. The folding seat clicked a little as he straightened. It was not Radek's place to question, especially with a sport that he did not know as he knew ski jumping -- though he had never noticed that Rodney held back in anything. It was not Rodney's way. If anything Rodney went too far, risked too much.

But about one thing Radek was absolutely certain: Rodney should not be needing to reassure his own coach. That he had never seen. Had the man not been to the Olympics before?

Obviously, no. Radek shook his head as he pushed away from the railing. He would have just enough time to take a shower before he left for the train to Amsterdam. He should be able to beat Rodney to the station in Munich, in fact. He made his way up the stairs to the back of the arena.

*

[starrylizard.livejournal.com]

Answer: YES

That is awesome! His jumps are like no effort at all and he's all loose limbs. SO like John in your fic!

I only watched the first one, because my dl limit suffers when I play with youtube. It's addictive! :P

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

The height on those jumps is just right. I like the looseness too, and he looks more like John in the formal program where (as is quite accurately pointed out above) he doesn't display the Mad Danz Skillz ;) and is stiffer through the arms, like John is.

I'll never find a perfect match, but I can piece a John together more easily with someone who's close. I wonder if I can find a more *intense* skater.

[enname.livejournal.com]

Cute, but a bit... perky for John? I'd say more fire, more into some of the music other than the last one. Or something. It is nearly midnight, I am seeing things. Sparkles. :P

Hmm, liked the Bowman one and yeah. I'd hope that Rodney was a little more technically profficient to go along with the show.

Glad you are feeling better. How is WG?

[enname.livejournal.com]

*de clings koala-cat-thing and heads for shower*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Check this one out. Same skater, different program.

John could never pull off that opening balletic move, and Lycacek is struggling more with his jumps than John usually does.

But roll it forward to 3:56 seconds in. Now that's John.

Lycacek - Carmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMY4S2SCtWw&mode=related&search=)

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Still sick, but also quite... distracted. Stares off into space thinking about his mom, the situation with his dad. Understandable.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Here's some very early Bowman, so you can see his precision before the drug addiction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB6cioSQq48&mode=related&search=) got completely out of hand. Of course, he was already an addict at this point.

His coach thought the cure was to make him go cold turkey for the period of his training, essentially holding him prisoner. Needless to say, this approach was a disaster. Addiction goes much deeper than a behavioral problem.

[plsteward.livejournal.com]

In the ones on youtube, no Lycacek's so not John. But (goes back & checks date) Oct 30th last year, I saw him in a Skate America comp, that was John, excepting the height in the jumps, Oda, he has the jumps I can see John doing.

In that comp Evan was, I wanna say very aware of his limbs and was a bit stiffer than he was at Torino. He also was a bit less of a dancer, more focused on getting it right, but you could see he was so wanting to let go & just have fun. I couldn't see the clip on youtube yet, but admitedly I haven't looked that hard.

But definatly, if you're going to look at anyone to pattern John's jumps after, look at Oda, but for every thing else, look to Lycacek.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you on Oda's jumps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcQ72rz5WMA). Also, Oda has the same stiffness in the upper body, which I think is connected. He and John both (obviously) lift weights, have more mass in the shoulder and upper body, and sacrifice some flexibility for... centrifical force. (I'm guessing on that spelling and too lazy to look it up.) It adds to their spins (Lambiel says the spin begins in the shoulder) and the spin is the foundation of the jumps. No wonder they're so great on the jumps.

Yeah. John lands like that. Not light like Ilia Kulik, but solid.

Rodney will never get John to flow through that area of his body. Not without totally changing John's workout routine, which he won't do. I think I found that program you mean. Just trying to figure out if it's the long program, Carmen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T1aT8rB-24), or the short. I think he injured himself in China (hip) so that may account for some stiffness.

Icarus

[stentoriansista.livejournal.com]

Well, everybody already weighed in, but here's my two cents anyway.
1.) OMFG! The hair! And the T-Shirt! That's so very John.
2.) John strikes me as the kind of guy who doesn't know he has hips (Yet. Maybe Rodney can teach him.) This guy is hip-tastic. He has that natural dancing ability and it's obvious he likes to show off. I'm assuming John skates like he flies in the show; it's not for anyone else, he just really likes things that go over 200mph. :) I think when he skates it will be like that, notsomuch performance and showmanship as that personal exhilaration of hitting all the moves perfectly.
3.) I think you could be onto something with the hip-hop, but I'd go for something harder, with even more of a backbeat. John doesn't strike me as a flow-y, dance-y skater; he'll want to come down hard on all the moves, make them powerful and distinct. (I also think he'll have a kind of unconscious grace when he's not trying, when he's really enjoying himself, but he's still not a dancer.)

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Drat. I think I had pop-ups turned off in my browser when I tried to answer this, because it's gone.

1.) OMFG! The hair! And the T-Shirt! That's so very John.

Evan looks like him, and has that California air. Of course, Evan Lysachek is a much better skater.

2.) ...He has that natural dancing ability and it's obvious he likes to show off.

Yeah, and John does not have that. He's not the dancer or showman Lysachek is.

I'm assuming John skates like he flies in the show; it's not for anyone else, he just really likes things that go over 200mph. :) I think when he skates it will be like that, notsomuch performance and showmanship as that personal exhilaration of hitting all the moves perfectly.

Exactly.

3.) I think you could be onto something with the hip-hop, but I'd go for something harder, with even more of a backbeat. John doesn't strike me as a flow-y, dance-y skater; he'll want to come down hard on all the moves, make them powerful and distinct.

Some of his music is more towards the techno. ;)

[fractalreality.livejournal.com]

I think the first is a bit too elaborate for John; he'd be precise, but never that comfortable giving up that much control over his movements so they flowed so well.

I can, however, totally see him dancing the Elvis section when he thought nobody was watching.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Definately well beyond John's dance skills, and yeah, you're right -- Lysechek here is much looser than John. Also, I'm not sure John would be into hip-hop. :)

I can, however, totally see him dancing the Elvis section when he thought nobody was watching.

Ha! Yes, especially that last swinging move.

He does look like John, physically, and there's a... California-esque boyishness to both of them. But it's not John's skating style.

I shall keep searching.

Icarus

[bramble-rose.livejournal.com]

I'll skip through the comments for the editorial...I thought this guy was close, but needed more jumps, especially towards the end of the routine. John has so much pent up energy that (kinda) came through, but not completely with this guy. These routines would be what Rodney wanted for John (More artistry, less jumps) but not what John would give. I did like the extended-leg spins and scratch(?)spins because of the energy, and there was lots of speed going around the arena. The all-black clothes were nice, and in the added clip, I expect John would fall off his jumps while concentrating too hard on the artsy-stuff. Which would make him want to cut back on the art & do more jumps. But I totally expect him to be really strong on jumps all the way through and even throw in extra at the end because of the energy of the rollerblading. He's got tons of endurance. (sorry, I haven't watched this much ice-skating for years *G*)

adding eta 2 comments

[bramble-rose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's more John :-) Maybe his first public attempt at what Rodney's been teaching him. The routine was fast, lots of jumps and spins and not a lot of upper body movement (except that signature hip thing EL seems to do).

[http://users.livejournal.com/shadowkittykat_/]

that is completely him! attitude, the moves he did, music choices, he even looks a bit like him (v.v. cute)

excellent!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

That's it! That's what's so much like John: the attitude. It's so... California slouch. (And yeah, definitely looks like him.)

Icarus

[piplover.livejournal.com]

I only saw the first clip, but I can totally see the way he did the scit for selecting music being John, and the outfit he wore just screamed John. He was a bit too artsy for what I think John is capable of, but I think if Rodney really works with him, he can get to a clos aproximation of this.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

The outfit, the scruffiness, the slightly goofy edge to him. Okay, Lysacek is better than John, but hey... Evan Lysacek just won the gold at that men's nationals. John's nowhere near that.

Icarus

[millefiori.livejournal.com]

I only watched the first clip, but I think (like, apparently, a lot of other commenters!) that this guy is more of an exhibitionist than John. I see John as being more intense, and more private. I think he'd be more about perfection--the feeling he gets when everything comes together and it's all just right than about flirting, having fun, or even connecting with the audience. As a result, I think he wouldn't be nearly that loose or relaxed with the dance moves.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It's Rodney who's the flirt, the tease, the one who plays to the audience. Which of course makes him the perfect one to get John to find his style.

Icarus

[lurksnomore]

Hmmm. Unlike a few other commentors, I actually think Sheppard does use his hips; although I do agree that he is very still in his upper body. The second (or was it third?) Evan vid was closer to how John would be if he weren't loosened up--good lines, albeit stiff; good jumps; good footwork as that is a hip/knee/ankle thing; but too much of nothing in the arm/face dept. which inhibits the watcher entering in. (Although, some skaters do go the other way and have too much pointless arm wave-y-ness that is silly to watch. It always looks like they are waving their arms to draw attention away from their lack of foot work and leg strength.)

Anyway, I think Rodney would like for him to be Evan in that first vid--communicating so much, drawing people in with the hip and thigh movements so that the jumps, while there, are icing on an otherwise yummy technical performance. Oddly, I like that first vid better than all the formal, performance stuff.

PS: Out of Bounds comment fic! Yay!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

PS: Out of Bounds comment fic! Yay!

Glad you liked it. :) I'm trying to catch up to that part of the story. Tonight -- more research. Though I think mostly I'm just trying to get myself in the mood.

I actually think Sheppard does use his hips; although I do agree that he is very still in his upper body.

Hmm. There's an unconcious, careless manner to him that reminds me of John. But I think you're right. John's tighter in the upper arms and shoulders. Definitely John locks everyone out. It's all about him and he doesn't share with the audience.

Icarus

[roaringmice.livejournal.com]

Some skaters that may be worth a look, skaters who skate like - well, like manly men, who are not balletic, but skate with a strong style that still works, artistically, perhaps elements of:

Mathew Gates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjo-Q_VIeRU

Although Mathew has a LOT more dance experience than John does. Still, he skates powerfully, straightforward, masculine. Look between the dance, and watch how he actually moves under all that.

To me, John would be less Nobunari Oda, and more like Li Chengjiang.

Li Chengjiang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOtPmD3RNQg

Li was a very jump-oriented skater when he started. He still has some of the most beautiful jumps in the business, but he's worked hard to develop artistry. You can see that his artistry isn't 100% yet, but he often surprises me with his musicality. He's come far.

Maybe some of the powerful, purposeful movement of Kevin van der Perren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPlc1fAl2Qo

But, I think most on target, is Timothy Goebel, in this one particular program:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXuMgb9ouN4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFpeLwNQQPY

And an analysis of his quad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1mJ5UU45GY

When Dick says his jumps are "pretty spiffy", the man does not lie.

Timothy and Li are two very realistic examples for you to use re: John and artistry. Both were known as jumpers first, and known to have crap for artistry. Then they started working on the artistic elements. Timothy - other than his shoulder position - has some beautiful spins. Good solid positions. And they skate like men who skate. Timothy, especially, skates North American in style.

Check these guys out and see if any of them, or parts of them, fit your picture how you want John to skate.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Great links, thank you. *clicks like mad*

And ha! Yeah, Timothy Goebel is who I originally based John's skating on, jump-wise, but he's a very different kind of skater in between. There's a different quality to him than John, he could never develop John's intensity.

I'm checking all of these, but Li and Kevin sound ver-ry interesting.

Icarus

[tonicollins.livejournal.com]

I think that this guy is what Rodney aspires for John to be.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Ain't that the truth? Though I think... Rodney's one to watch the skater and... you know you just inspired a scene?

[hack-benjamin22.livejournal.com]

They have the same build and same facial structure, but I think this guy likes dancing a little too much. Which is the complete opposite of John.

[roaringmice.livejournal.com]

I agree. Evan Lysacheck has been studying dance for far too long. He's too far up that path to match with John, as he's been described in this story.