Xanphibian, thank you.

[icarus]

Thank you, xanphibian.

For the record, I too am an incest survivor and I write about incest. heatherly's post... I have no words. Fortunately, xanphibian does.

Xanphibian sums up a lot of what I feel.

Yes. heatherly misses the point entirely. Yes. Many incest and rape survivors aren't just "okay" with these stories -- they actively seek them out. But to understand that, I think you should read xanphibian's post.

For the record, I'm bothered by heatherly's opportunistic fear-mongering about "outsiders" on the heels of the latest scares. There's potential for a fandom backlash against writers of incest, non-con, and chan. If that happens, no one's going to care if it's a good story or a bad story, or if it's "realistic" or not. We'll just be targeted based on the warnings.

If that happens, I'd do the same thing we did in LJ. I'd take all the warnings off my stories.

Lastly... "writing responsibly"? What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

Comments

[keelywolfe.livejournal.com]

Lastly... "writing responsibly"? What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

I have no idea, but it reminds me of the same people who think we should have responsible television and radio to 'protect the children' rather than making the parents do it.

'Writing responsibly' must be the stupidest phrase I have ever heard. How do I write irresponsibly? Do I have to have a few beers first? Does it require me posting my stories on a the Sesame Street website? I have no idea.

I hate it when people try to tell me what I should or should not write.

[nicocoer.livejournal.com]

*headdesk* I wonder if the people being all OMGNOESATTHESEFICSEW know that they are going to force fic writers to take warning s off and thus presenting un-warned for triggers to the survivors with PTSD. *sigh*

and I've seen the "writing responsibly" thing, and it blows and jsut pisses me off. I may not know for Sure what my biological father did other then take "photographs" and beat my mother, but even if I DID I would be PISSED at this whole "Writing Responsibly" thing. ugh.

[maelwaedd.livejournal.com]

Ditto, truly. I hadn't seen either of the posts you refer to, but while I refuse to read about rape I have sought out incest fic. Each to their own, I think.

[scarah2.livejournal.com]

It means that you should not type fanfic while driving.

[fer-de-lance.livejournal.com]

What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

Maybe it's like drinking responsibly? Like, "don't do it for so long that you park your car in your neighbour's window"? Mainly applies, presumably, to those folks who get feverish writing urges and sit scribbling for hours till their brains stop working, resulting in bizarre, often ruded behaviour until they pass out of heat/hunger/exhaustion.

:D Oh, and word! about the outsiders things. They're not going to care if it's a "responsibly written" story, any more than the Potter-hunters care about the attitude toward witchcraft in HP. There's a wizard on the cover, ergo it's a 955 page treatise on Why You Should Become a Pagan, Kid. The same thing's going to apply to fanfic; it says 'incest' in the header, ergo it's a 10,000-word essay on Go Out and Bonk Your Relatives, Right Now! ((eyerolling))

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link to xanphibian's post. I didn't know about any of this, but that post especially was very interesting.

[skipmcgee.livejournal.com]

"writing responsibly"? What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

Ugh. I have heard that term thrown around so many times in the last week or so. And considering how clearly she defines many of the other terms in her essay it is odd that 'writing responsibly' comes off as pretty vague.

The whole thing just makes me flash back to the time when Eminem was new and people kept telling him he needed 'more responsible lyrics' because the listeners might interpret them as literal acts - which was just a nice way of saying he needed to self-censor.

[amalthia]

thanks for posting this link.

[amalthia]

p.s. I have no freaking clue what that means to "write responsibly" personally I think anyone who feels people need to "write responsibly" should be banned from reading anything. Obviously they don't know how to read responsibly.

[ella-bane.livejournal.com]

There's potential for a fandom backlash against writers of incest, non-con, and chan. If that happens, no one's going to care if it's a good story or a bad story, or if it's "realistic" or not. We'll just be targeted based on the warnings.

Good point. :(

Thanks for the link to Green's response! She put things in perfect perspective, for me.

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

Wow, good thing I don't put specific warnings on my stories in the first place. [wry smile]

I agree with the (several) other people who were metafandomed recently that heatherly personally dislikes this sort of thing and is looking for rational-sounding reasons why it should be banned.

Don't like? Don't read. And learn to use the [Back] button.

Angie

[chronolith.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to back out of that thread before I get really flame-y.

Some people really do not seem to understand the concept of fantasy. Like, at all. I think these people do not get that rape fantasies are the single most prevelant type of fantasy for women (not men) and they don't picture themselves at the rapist. And you know what? That's peachy keen because it's a fucking fantasy.

Honestly, I kinda wonder about these people's sex lives if they don't have any conception of sexual fantasy.

[rushlight75.livejournal.com]

I just finished reading the debate on xanphibian's journal. Wow. I'm honestly not sure whether I'm offended or amused. Basically it left me with two responses:

1. The fact that some people seem literally incapable of distinguishing between fantasy and reality is just staggering to me.

2. How can the existence of a story be morally repugnant? For example, I dislike stories in which one or more of the main characters dies. They make me sad, and tie my stomach up in knots, and (depending on how well they're written) generally leave me feeling depressed and traumatized. But guess what? There are a large number of death fics out there that I will never read because I know how I'll react to them, but the knowledge that they're out there lurking on the internet unread does not keep me up at night. They have every right to exist, and to be read by whomever wishes to read them. Their authors have the right to write as many death fics as their hearts desire. The fact that I'm personally uncomfortable reading them has nothing to do with the author's right to write them. IMO, thinking otherwise would be silly.

Then again, I'm not of the opinion that such stories need to be warned for, either. Every time I click on a story link, I'm perfectly aware that I'm taking my mental well-being into my own hands. ^_^

[aukestrel.livejournal.com]

I just friended you - hope you don't mind. :/ I am not an incest survivor - and one of the things that bothered me the most about heatherly's post was the implication that one had to be a survivor in order to wrwite about such things; people who have not been through this trauma cannot, apparently, understand it or at least depict it in fiction - but I am with you on the whole "who defines 'responsible'"? The answer to that is... not something I want to contemplate. I am in fanfiction because it's a place where I can create universes I want to explore, or explore universes created by others in my own way. That way happens to be slash; it could as easily be incest or chan or RPF or what have you. There are people who think writing slash fiction is "irresponsible." There are people who think writing fanfiction is irresponsible. Where DO you draw the line?

I choose not to draw a line. As a fictional world, as an artistic creation, all fanfic is created equal and should be treated equally, that is, as a manifestation of our ability to think and create, no matter what other people think of it.

[filenotch.livejournal.com]

Fuck "writing responsibly." Write whatever the hell you want. I'm about the last person you'd expect to come up with a "think of the children" argument (Yo, sexual relationship with authority figure from the age of 10 to 14 or 15 (I can't be sure), so I'm not speaking without some clue.), but I wish some fics were posted with some thought. And I mean specifically fics that paint such relationships as good, or the child as seducer, etc. The "Don't like? Don't read" attitude is fine for adults talking to other adults, but I said it in my (again unflocked) post and I'll say it here: If I'd read that kind of thing when I was in the middle of it, I don't know how much more what happened to me would have fucked me up.

Abusers were, in most cases, abused themselves. In their experience, it's normal. Although it was my experience, I've been able to re-set my parameters to "not normal to have sex with minors over whom you have authority." With a vengance.

[stewardess.livejournal.com]

I am bugged by her conclusions because they put a burden on fanfiction that shouldn't be on any art form. Creative works do not have to make the world a better place. Sometimes they can simply be enjoyed.

I believe in writing fanfiction responsibly, but I am coming from a different direction than heatherly. I want to be responsible to fandom, to my readers, not a possible "victim."

For instance, when a heated discussion of unconscious racism in SGA fanfiction occurred a couple of months back, I agreed it was a serious problem the SGA fandom needed to talk about. The point was not "Don't write about racism!" but instead suggesting a writer think twice about creating an AU where Teyla is a maid and Ronon a chauffeur. I don't think stories like that necessarily "victimize" anyone, but I do feel they are inaccurate characterizations of Teyla and Ronon, based on the writer's unconscious prejudice. Therefore, stories like that are a disservice to fandom. It would be entirely possible to write a realistic SGA AU about racism -- Teyla and Ronon on Earth and dealing with prejudice at Stargate command, for instance. Can anyone rec a story like that?

But how is a racist SGA AU irresponsible when a rape story is not? Both racism and rape have the power to victimize, after all.

There is a important difference between racist SGA AUs and rape stories. The racist SGA AUs contained real racism, unconscious or otherwise. Rape stories do not, however, contain real rape, no matter how much a story may glamorize or trivialize the subject.

I think the only responsibility I have as a fanfiction writer is to write stories with accurate characterization.

P.S. I typed "victim" as fictim by accident. We could use that to refer to the "writing responsibly" argument. I was fictimized by your story! Heh.

[djinanna.livejournal.com]

What you said, what Green said. And if you haven't, you should check out what entrenous said, too: "responsibility" for writers; writing & fear; some self indulgent & happy shouting into the void (http://entrenous88.livejournal.com/553312.html), because what she said, too.