A gift to SGA writers from wildernessguru

[icarus]

wildernessguru, always the technical advisor, has a gift for all SGA fans.

Attached is a weapons wish-list, weapons that ideally Atlantis would have, not necessarily what they do have in season one. These can be brought on the Daedalus or can appear in the frustrated complaints of Ford and Sheppard in season one "AT-4s and that's it? What were they thinking?"

You can beautify your inventories as a satisfied post-Seige Lt. Colonel Sheppard purrs over the new toys.

Or you can write a "grocery list" of what the Atlantis personnel request from home. I think it would be fun to read a series of lists with all sorts of frivolous items characteristic of various team members, DVDs, food... and then get down to Sheppard's... to find this long series of weapons.

WG is surprised the Atlantis crew didn't take Goa'uld weapons with them, but I pointed out that they don't want to have to explain 'zat guns to an audience unfamiliar with SG-1. With no more ado, let me present...

STARGATE ATLANTIS – THE DOWN & DIRTY WEAPONRY LIST

SMALL ARMS:

1. SIG P-226 (9mm Automatic Pistol 15-round magazine)
Superior to the M-92 Beretta in durability, reliability and accuracy it surpassed ALL other Pistols in the US Army's testing, but the Berreta was chosen solely on cost grounds. Also used by the US Navy SEALS and numerous Western Special Forces units around the world.

2. SPAS 12 (.12 Gauge, Automatic Shotgun 8-round magazine – 1-ounce hollow-point slugs)
They don't have any Shotguns, and they NEED them, great for close-in, heavy punch firepower and room-to-room defensive and offensive fighting. Thee best intimidation weapon.

3. P-90 PDW (5.7mm Personal Defense Weapon – 50-round transparent magazine so you can see how many rounds are left without having to remove the magazine)
A standard ball bullet will easily penetrate more than 48-layers of Kevlar body armor at 200-yards range which is very impressive to say the least! Combat weight loaded about 6.5-Lbs. About two pounds lighter than an M-16A2 Rifle.

4. M-249 SAW (5.56mm Squad Automatic Weapon – Bipod, belt fed, 200-round plastic magazine)
For situations that demand sheer firepower.

SPECIALIZED WEAPONS:

5. MSG-90A1 Sniper Rifle 7.62mm, collapsible bipod, 5-round magazine, iron sights adjustable to 1,200-yard range (more than a half mile) and the muzzle is threaded to accept a silencer. Combat weight with bipod, 10-power telescope and loaded 5-round magazine, 15 lbs. SG-1 Teams have also used these. A SNIPER in your backyard is an enemy's worst nightmare. The Stargate Atlantis team ought to have at the minimum a 12-man Special Forces A-Team of which at least 4 are trained Snipers.

6. M-240 LMG (7.62mm Light Machine Gun – Bipod, belt-fed, 1,000-rounds per minute)
Two needed to be Tripod-mounted near the entrance positioned above so they are harder to destroy to the Stargate room with a good field of fire and a bullet-proof shield for the gunner. An M-240 is also man portable by a single person.

7. B-300 SMAW (82mm Shoulder-Launched, Multi-purpose, Assault Weapon) One-shot, and can be reloaded.
Atlantis has the disposable AT-4 Rocket Launcher which has limited usefulness in destroying targets, whereas the B-300 SMAW fires several different types of rockets for destroying heavily fortified bunkers, light armored vehicles, and people on the ground with HE-I (High Explosive-Incendiary), HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank), and HE-Frag (High Explosive-Fragmentation) rounds. The US Marine Corps and Israeli Army use the SMAW.

8. STINGER SAM (Surface-to-Air-Missile). Shoulder-fired, one shot, reloadable.
Atlantis to my knowledge does not have any portable air defense from Wraith ships attacking people on the ground. The STINGER Missile is a true Fire-&-Forget weapon that is all-aspect (can be fired at any angle to the target) and is a heat-seeking homing Missile that is well combat-proven. It is still considered Thee best Shoulder-Fired SAM in existence. It's also extremely easy to learn to fire and is light for 1-person to carry.

9. Hand Grenades – Fragmentation, White Phosphorus, and Smoke.
These in addition to the flash-bang hand grenades we see in "The Brotherhood."

10. Claymore – Anti-Personnel Mine, detonated via radio frequency and/or trip-wire, solely directional, each Mine is loaded with thousands of ½-ounce metal ball bearings with an high explosive charge behind these. They are murderously effective at close range – think being blown in half…literally. Cheap, super light and no reason not to carry a few.

WEAPONS TRAINING:

A. Weapon's Training would be mandatory for ALL Atlantis Personnel regardless of their position and rank, No exceptions. Every person must be able to defend the home base with lethal force…if necessary, as there are never enough Military personnel to cover everything. (Note from Icarus: also note that most of the casualties have been military personnel.)

B. Secondly, ALL personnel would have qualify on the P-223 Pistol, the P-90 PDW, and the SPAS Shotgun once a month firing live rounds in a range. To qualify one must have a minimum of 35 out of 50 hits from various firing positions. Civilians are tested firing at 7 meters and 15 meters, from a standing position (double-handed grip), kneeling (left hand and right hand, single-handed grips), and crouched in close (using your strong hand). Personnel who join off-world teams have to qualify at longer distances.

C. ALL Military Personnel would practice firing live ammunition once a week at fixed targets, popup targets and fast-moving mechanical targets simulating real enemies using the P-223, P-90, SPAS 12 and M-249 SAW. Military are tested at 7 meters, 15 meters (these tests are identical to the civilian tests), 25 meters (standing, double-handed grip), and standing behind a barrier (left-handed grip on the one side, switching to right-handed behind the barrier as you reload and fire right-handed), and 35 meters from a prone position.

AMMUNITION STOCKPILES

Ammunition Stockpiles For The Following Weapons (typical combat load, and jumper weapons):

Taking into consideration for maintaining weapon's proficiency through weekly training and actual Combat missions the Military Personnel alone would require an Armory stockpile of about 1-Million 5.7mm rounds…just for the P-90's alone!

The US Navy SEAL Teams each man fires 15,000 live rounds of 9mm Pistol ammunition every single year! Imagine what they go through in a year for Sub Machine Guns and Assault Rifles.

COMBAT LOAD PER MAN

A Typical Combat Load per-man for a normal non-combative mission i.e,., not a specific warfare mission would consist of the following:

To make it simple each person would be armed with both a P-90 and a P-223 Pistol, Rodney included.

Major Sheppard –

1 - P-90 PDW (50-rd mag' loaded with 8-extra magazines in his combat vest four-double pockets = 450-rds total)
1 – P-223 9mm Pistol (15-rd magazine loaded, plus 3-extra mags on his left hip ammunition pouch)
1 – Combat Survival Sheath Knife (partially serrated on opposite edge)
2 – Fragmentation Grenades
2 – Smoke Grenades

Master Sargent –

1 – P-90 PDW (With an increased ammo' load-out than the Major totaling 12-magazines)
1 – P-223 Pistol (Same ammo' load-out)
1 - Combat Survival Knife
2 - Frag' Grenades
4 – Claymore Mines with both trip-wire and radio detonators

JUMPER ARMORY LOCKER

EACH Jumper Craft would be equipped with a small Armory Locker with the following (regardless of mission):

1 – M-249 SAW (With 10 - 200-rd box magazines and a complete cleaning kit)
1 – B-300 SMAW (With 10 - HEAT rockets)
1 – STINGER SAM Launcher (3-missiles – the Wraith nearly always come in ships)
4 - P-90 PDW's (Extra weapons in addition to ones carried in case of emergency with 10 magazines per weapon with cleaning kits for each)
4 – P-223 9mm Pistols (6 – 15-rd magazines per weapon and cleaning kits for each)



Say thank you to the nice wildernessguru. Coming soon: WG's list of all Atlantis personnel (scientific, administrative, medical, and military) with their specific specialties.

He's good, isn't he?

Comments

[gwendolen.livejournal.com]

He's very good. *g*

So, thank you wildernessguru for all that useful information.

I was wondering that the mission hadn't brought more weapons with them and that they didn't seem to train the civilians. I just found it extremely difficult to wrap my mind around the fact that Sheppard would allow Rodney on missions without making sure that Rodney knows how to defend himself and others. He strikes me as a perfectionist in some aspects.

Not to mention the lack of defenses in the gateroom.

[fan-this.livejournal.com]

Wow. That was amazingly interesting. This coming from the girl who is incredibly afraid of guns. I also avoid writing those kind of things because I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Very interesting. Thanks for putting this together, weildernessguru and thank you to you, Icarus, for posting this for us. Much appreciated.

[orca-girl.livejournal.com]

For extra-credit (and for those who work best from visual aids, rather than just descriptions)... As a reference, writers familiar with SG1 can see the following in action:

2. SPAS-12 -- one of the best action sequences involving the use of these is the final fight in the S3 episode "Nemesis". SPAS-12s were part of Jack's request-list, for use against the Replicators.

3. P-90 -- duh. These are all over both shows, although they are only introduced on SG1 in late S4 ("The First Ones"; prior to that, SG teams used the HK MP5A3 SMGs). In SG1 S5 and after, though, while SG-1 (the team itself) uses the P-90s, other SG teams are still sometimes spotted carrying the old MP5s. (Does SGA use only the P-90s, or does it also have MP5s hanging around in the background?) The SG1 S5 episode "The Warrior" has a nice "feature" sequence demonstrating the characteristics of the P-90.

4. M-249 SAW -- best sequence showing this gun in action comes from SG1 S6's "Allegiance" -- Jack has a lovely slow-mo sequence in the big firefight towards the end where he picks one of these up and lets go with it; it's equipped with one of the box magazines.

5. MSG-90A1 Sniper Rifle -- am fairly sure that this is the weapon seen being used by Jack while he's on the hillside in S7's "Orpheus".

6. M-240 LMG -- I am trying to remember if we concluded that this is what we saw being fired in S7's "Evolution Pt. 1", by Jack, at the super-soldier. That is certainly a belt-fed machine-gun, but I can't recall if it's an M-240 or simply an M-60. (Teal'c also has an interesting weapon in that firefight, but at the moment I can't recall what we figured out it was.)

7. B-300 SMAW &. 8. STINGER SAM -- I am pretty sure that #8 is what we see fired by Kawalsky to take down the death-glider in part 2 of S1's "Children of the Gods", though I'd like a second opinion on that... and on whether #8 is what Teal'c fires at the start of the fight in S6's "Full Circle", or whether he's firing #7... or something else entirely.

9. Hand grenades -- another duh, we've seen them used a bunch of times. I'd like an opinion on the hand-held grenade-launcher used by Jack in S5's "The Fifth Man", though (M203A1 or M203-PI; it's hard to tell quite what he's using, it may be a hybrid or specialized Canadian model; it'd also be nice to know what he was *doing* with it...). The M203 itself is designed to be used with M16s, so if the SGA expedition hasn't taken M16s along, the stand-alone M203-PI or M203A1 models would make more sense... if you think they have them at all.

10. Claymore -- the best claymore sequence in SG is probably COTG, again -- when they first arrive on Chulak, Sam Carter has the task of laying out the claymores; and in the final fight, Kawalsky has the firing switches (so they aren't trip-wire). There may be others I'm blanking on.

[wickedelf.livejournal.com]

heh, wildernessguru rocks!

[princeali-m-fan.livejournal.com]

...This just made me want to go shoot something. I feel so knowledgable, lol.

[titti]

How geeky is it to confess that I'm in love with this? It's going in my memories.

[xanphibian.livejournal.com]

WOW, this is awesome. I'll be adding this to memories and probably printing it out to study, too.

AWESOME.

[saeva.livejournal.com]

While the list is definitely nifty and a fantastic, fantastic resource I think both A and B under Weapons Training is very misleading given that it seems, well, contra-canonical. That is in a canon where the civilian leader has never touched a gun onscreen while herself and the main civilian field expert neither thinks to reload his weapon nor can he do so smoothly after six to eight months in the field (to say nothing of the clip snafu in Siege III).

Still, useful list for the technical aspects. Coolness.

- Andrea.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

No, no, no. You're misreading this. What I said at the top is that this is what Sheppard wants, not what he has. This is an ideal scenario.

On the technical aspects you've misunderstood as well: they have AT-4s (fire and throw away), but what they should have is the B-300 SMAW (fire and reload). They have 9mm Berettas. What they need is the more durable and reliable SIG.

Please don't get WG started on how way off SGA is, militarily. He hates the way the gateroom is virtually undefended (the soldiers come forward into positions that are below the attackers, which soldiers since Sun Tzu have known is a big no-no). The fact that Rodney can barely fire a gun drives WG up the wall ("no way someone like Sheppard would let him out in the field").

Of course, SG-1 set the bar pretty high when it comes to military accuracy. There are mistakes but as WG says, "You never find this level of attention to detail in a TV show. No where else are you going to find the Russians on an American TV show carrying suthentic Russian gear. Usually they just have them carry M-16s." He says that the SGA military advisors are either falling down on the job, or they don't have them.

I say we can work around this problem in fanfic by having the military types be frustrated with the status quo, emphasizing that this was originally intended to be a scientific mission and a lot of decisions were made on that basis.

I can just see Sheppard narrow his eyes at the AT-4s and say, "Whose bright idea was it to bring these?"

Weir asked, "What's wrong with them?"

"Well nothing, if you have a constant supply. But if you're cut off from Earth it seems you'd want weapons you can reload." Sheppard set it down with an aura frustration. "These we fire once and we've gotta throw 'em away."

"You're kidding," Weir says. Suddenly their arsenal look a little more flimsy.

"Yep. That's the old American military wastefulness once again," Rodney sighed, but then he brightened. "Although they did give us an Olympic-grade ping-pong table at Area 51." He blinks at the room full of irritated faces. "What? They said institute a fitness program. It was either that or the pool, but we couldn't find a contractor with the proper security clearance."

"Your fitness program was ping-pong?" Sheppard said, looking Rodney up and down. "Why am I not surprised...."

"It was recreational," Rodney said, sucking in his gut.


Icarus

[saeva.livejournal.com]

I don't think I misread, I think I just wasn't clear.

Sheppard has the authority and the opportunity to, at the very least, barring extentuating circumstances like a mass evacuation require that everyone who goes offworld is field ready. He has the authority to require that his team, including McKay, be field ready. He never exercises this authority, he never even argues it. From that, I'd say the sort of military commander Sheppard is just... doesn't care.

So, this being his ideal list doesn't make sense to me at all. [Neither does canon make sense but there you go.]

- Andrea.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure canon says Sheppard doesn't make sure his team can qualify.

When a Wraith advanced on Rodney's position, he hit with enough accuracy to kill, most of his shots striking home. That's not easy to do.

Based on my own experience with guns, under pressure you often fire high and to the left (if you're right-handed; high and to the right if left-handed). This gets worse if you're tired. Most people faced with an attacker advancing miss entirely, even at close range.

I think Rodney's the sort to do fine under controlled conditions, then practically freeze when faced with trouble the real world. He got through it by asking step-by-step directions from Sheppard -- which echoes what happens in qualifying training: You fire and reload on command.

Icarus

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Oh hell, I just re-read my description at sga_noticeboard. This version in my LJ is clear, but you're right, the suggested uses on the board isn't.

*contemplates changing it*

*is overcome with laziness*

Nah.

Icarus

[stellahobbit.livejournal.com]

Thank you wildernessguru for compiling the list, and icarusancalion for hosting it. I'll add this, and any other lists, over at stargate_search.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Cool! Thank you.

I'm keeping most of these replies for WG since he's the one that compiled it.

Icarus

[zellieh]

Thanks, wilderness guru! *G*

[iago-90.livejournal.com]

wow this is cool, *saves*

[lamardeuse.livejournal.com]

A heads up on S2 Sheppard - I have my own weapons expert at home (handy, that) and he says that Sheppard has now switched from the 9 mil to a .45 with some funky custom features. He's kicking himself as to the manufacturer (it's a Canadian company, natch), but I gave him a good look at it in a still shot and he says the following about it:

-adjustable combat sights on the rear of the barrel

-extended beavertail safety (sticks out the back)

-bobbed "commander style" hammer (prevents the web of your thumb from getting pinched and lightens up the action which makes it more accurate)

In short, the whole gun has been specifically made more accurate for combat.

He also suspects it's equipped with a "double-stack" magazine with about 14 rounds (rather than the regular 7 or 8) but he can't be sure on that.