The MSScribe Report.

[icarus]

I tried to read the the msscribe report, but somewhere around page two my head exploded.

The report's excellent, written in a journalistic style, carefully researched with disclaimers about unclear or missing information and almost completely without the usual "Rita Skeeter" glee you find in wankery and those who love it. charlottelennox has done a good job. The tone, at least as far as I've read, makes this much easier to stomach, despite the level of lurid detail.

That said, I couldn't stomach it. Lies, blatant manipulation, sock-puppetry of the worst kind where someone invents their own fans and their own pseudo-Christian troll. I fell for this, too, back when "The Black List" was published by fandom_scruples on LJ in 2004. What it says about slashers' biases (and fears?) towards Christians (the real Christians apparently told the troll to turn the other cheek and whatnot) is a little disturbing.

It only occurs to me ... and please forgive my deep and abiding cynicism that arises from having exposed one LJ financial scam, dealt with a harrassing flurry of sockpuppets attacking wildernessguru for criticizing certain pack designs -- (from a designer we know; the guy finally screwed up and dropped info he could only know in person via his sockpuppets, oopsie) -- and one rather persistant troll who hates my Buddhist stuff ... wouldn't it be something if this were all a final grab for attention by msscribe?

I doubt it, but this oldtimer leans on the sidelines and waits for the other shoe to drop. *Icarus chews a toothpick, narrow-eyed*



ETA: Chatting with sharp_tongue and orca_girl, apparently in chapter ten charlottelennox explains how she got involved in writing this account. I haven't been able to read that far. orca_girl points out it's the nature of this type of account for people to doubt it.

Yeah. I've run into that. People immediately want to distance themselves and show that "I'm an oldtimer" *cough* so "I'd never be fooled, nuh-uh, not me!" It's also a sign that the account is successful in making people alert -- too alert at first.

Comments

[sharp-tongue.livejournal.com]

The scope of it is rather unbelievable, isn't it. I started out rolling my eyes at the people in the story and as it went on, my heart just sank. I hate believing that there are people out there like that.

That said, the report's style and presentation impresses the hell out of me.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

It's staggering. And it's matching up with what few facts I know.

There are people out there like that, but luckily most of them have personal habits that lead them to experiencing the joys of prison. Or indicted by the SEC.

I do wonder why the effort to chronicle this so thoroughly. And another part of me wants to see something like it, but with an entirely different angle, anthologizing stories and their interconnectedness. I would enjoy that more.

Icarus

[sharp-tongue.livejournal.com]

Charlotte Lennox talked about how It All Happened, ie how the chronicle came into being at the end of chapter 10, if you've gotten that far. It seems to have started as a curiosity and snowballed from there.

I'd love to see CL take another (more light-hearted) topic and research that. I'm feeling pretty hollow and exhausted after just reading this one. I can't even imagine how those who were involved must feel.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Ah, I haven't gotten that far. Two pages in and I just ... keeled over. But Femme's convinced me to at least try. It's probably best to know what can be done so we can be alert for it.

I'm feeling pretty hollow and exhausted after just reading this one. I can't even imagine how those who were involved must feel.

I can, actually. Which is why it needed to be told.

It would be really cool to see another topic handled with this kind of thoroughness and dedication. I keep making noises about a fandom anthology, hoping someone will do it. I'll bet CL is pretty tired at the moment.

Icarus

[sharp-tongue.livejournal.com]

You definitely need to keep reading. It doesn't get really mind bending until, oh, chapter five or so.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

It doesn't get really mind bending until, oh, chapter five or so.

You're kidding.

Icarus

[sharp-tongue.livejournal.com]

Not even a little. Just when you think you've seen the depths of crazy, you start another section and then realize what true crazy is.

You have no idea, which is why I've been encouraging people to read all of it.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

I would give CL a job in the blink of an eye, if I still were an editor.

[sharp-tongue.livejournal.com]

I would, too, if I had an editor's job. :> She impressed the hell out of me.

[turtlespeaks.livejournal.com]

Eh. . . I find that I care very little either way. If it's her, then hell, she's going about it in an interesting way.

Also, dude, fandom_scruples still exists? No way?! Wild.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I was a little surprised, too. And man, we flocked to that Black List like lemmings, didn't we? It was all over my flist. Downright scary how easily we were played.

Icarus

[mecurtin.livejournal.com]

You are not the only one who has wondered that. I have had 3rd-hand confirmation that the poster is in fact a person distinct from Ms.Scribe, but I am not going to do a high-dive into the swimming pool of credulity just yet.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I think we're bound to start thinking like that just after reading the thing. Has anyone done a count on how many identities she's had? It's like Inspector Clouseau -- or an Eddie Murphy movie -- only she's much more successful at it.

*thinks*

No. This was probably written by someone that msscribe seriously pissed off (or else why the effort?) but there's an "expose the truth" carefulness that, well, if I were writing an expose, I'd go through the effort and careful documentation. When you're documenting someone beyond-the-pale it's really hard for people to believe it.

The only thing that concerns me is the bashing of heidi8 & Co., and the HP fandom, with some oblique comments about msscribe being a great LJer. But then, you need balance to be credible.

Hmm. I think I'll just stand over here with my toothpick and wait for the movie.

Icarus

[femmequixotic]

You know, as hard as it is to read, I really think people in all fandoms should read it. Because it's sociopathic behaviour in case study form and I can tell you I have things I'll be on the lookout now for. It's also a very interesting look into BNF culture, I thought. Although now I'm of the mind that it's impossible for old school BNFs to survive in the same structure. I'm pondering a bit of meta on it, actually.

I also think that it should be required reading for all HP fen because that one person caused so many of the major wanks that fragmented fandom in recent years.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

It is staggering. Okay, I'll try to read it, once I finish the next part of Out Of Bounds and my Jack/Daniel Fic-A-Thon story. I got two pages into the Scribe report and just... ugh.

My experience with exposing cons is that you're always faced with people who'll doubt you, just because while reading the mess the readers become hyper-alert.

one person caused so many of the major wanks that fragmented fandom in recent years.

Yes. HP has a rep for being extraordinarily wanky, and I've got this image that the reality is a bunch of typical personality conficts -- and then this huge Hindenberg-like wanker eclipsing the fandom.

It's like ... going to a bank to rob it. Why? Because that's where the money is. She went to HP for attention. Why? Because that's where the audience is. And a bunch of BNFs for her to latch onto like a vampire.

*sigh* I need a bottle of Pepto-Bismol for this....

Icarus

[femmequixotic]

Well, write first. Then read. :D

I don't know if it's 100% true, but parts of it have without doubt been corraborated by heidi8 on her journal. And in the comments of the chapters a number of other people have come out with evidence that also corraborates elements of the story. And as for the so called stalker that was supposedly responsible for several of the sockpuppets according to msscribe, called the police department today and they never had it on file. Her call was replicated by oulangi on the other side with the same results. So I'm of the opinion that the most important elements of it are fairly rock-solid at this point.

It's really a story that once you get into the meat of it will just make you appalled that something like this could happen. But it doesn't surprise me that it happened in HP. Sigh. And it made me very, very aware of the history of a lot of the undercurrents that still exist in fandom today, whether or not people have stayed in the HP fandom.

And hon? You might need a case of Pepto-Bismol. :/ But it is a cautionary tale, and one I think needs to be kept in mind. I mean, this actually happened. *is staggered*

[femmequixotic]

Oh, and that should be that angua9 called the police. Jeez. Stupid code. *conveniently ignores the idiot who inputted the stupid code...g*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

The deep history in the very first part is the only part (so far) that I knew absolutely nothing about. Other things I've caught a whiff of here and there, though never understood what was going on.

From what little I have stumbled across, well, it matches up.

Icarus

[orca-girl.livejournal.com]

I think that the "it's actually msscribe" theory is really only going around due to the nature of the narrative itself and due to the writer feeling that it was best to present it under a pseudonym (and I hope her identity is revealed once people have had time to digest). I mean -- it's a narrative about sockpuppets and getting attention. But really, the "it's msscribe" theory only works if msscribe somehow gets out of it in the end, if she garners a whole bunch of attention that does her some sort of good. I just can't see this being conceived of as having that effect. And indeed, it hasn't -- it has caused even more damning info to come out (i.e. she was behind all of the most vicious anon postings in Charitygate; final confirmation that her original stalker assertions were false; etc.)

I also honestly think that msscribe isn't actually accomplished enough to pull something like that off. It would be too dazzlingly schizophrenic, but someone who was *actually* that disturbed wouldn't, I don't think, be able to write something that long and detailed without slipping up. (Revealing info that she could not have gotten unless it was her writing it, for example -- which CL points out msscribe slipping up and doing a few times in reality, which is one of the reasons she is being implicated in some of the accusations.) Or, it would take a preternatural degree of self-awareness to be able to, in effect, construct msscribe as an alter-ego who engages in all these machinations, but to seed into each of them just enough hubris or carelessness that she is catchable in the end.

I also don't think that a number of the people who came forward and gave CL the documentation that resulted in the expose becoming that big -- people who had *already* gone to lengths to try to expose msscribe, with varying degrees of failure -- would have been fooled by a CL who was actually an msscribe-sockpuppet asking for that information. These are people who years ago realized how to trace at least some of this via IP addresses. And her IP address m.o. never changed. So how easy is it to believe that in one case and one case only -- CL -- she managed to pull off an IP scam so perfectly that she fooled the people *already alerted to* the IP pattern, and likely to look into it... unless they had CL vouched for in some other way?

But also, it becomes clear when CL does her "how this came to be" narrative at the end of part 10 that some of the folks from whom she got some of the evidence are folks *she* knows in person. So while we the readers don't know yet -- there's a lot of folks reading the thing as it was posted who contributed to it, who know who CL is.

All the vibe I get from her is that she used a pseudonym for rhetorical reasons, not because she feared saying this stuff or it damaging her reputation or anything. More, I'm guessing, because she feared more people might not read it if they saw her name on it, or would carry other preconceptions into it if they "knew" the author. That's why I'm hoping there'll be a reveal of her identity once people have read and absorbed.

It's fascinating. In a trainwrecky kind of way.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

really only going around due to the nature of the narrative itself

Yes. While reading it people become hyper-alert to being conned and start questioning their shadows.

I ran into this with that financial scam, too. It's symptom that you're succeeding in waking people up, even if a little bit frustrating for the person who's carefully exposing the truth.

it becomes clear when CL does her "how this came to be" narrative at the end of part 10

That's what sharp_tongue is telling me. *points up-thread* I haven't been able to get that far. Page two I rolled over, dead.

It's fascinating. In a trainwrecky kind of way.

Femme's convinced me to read it as a sort of warning to fandom and to develop an understanding of what people can do.

All the vibe I get from her is that she used a pseudonym for rhetorical reasons, not because she feared saying this stuff or it damaging her reputation or anything. More, I'm guessing, because she feared more people might not read it if they saw her name on it, or would carry other preconceptions into it if they "knew" the author.

Now I'm curious who this is, and if it's someone I know or have heard of.

Icarus

[cheshyre]

I haven't been able to get that far. Page two I rolled over, dead.
Honestly, I've mostly just skimmed it (and skipped many sections), looking for sections which intersected with my experience of fandom (like the scruples timeframe).

I don't entirely know what to think...

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I'm feeling a sense of fierce happiness that the bad guy got caught. You could call this report her perp walk.

What she did (from what I've read from page one and two) is awful, but if everything checks out (note the hyper-alertness) let's not forget that we're stepping in as the red and blue lights are flashing and msscribe is being stuffed into the back seat of the police car.

Icarus

[shezan.livejournal.com]

I also honestly think that msscribe isn't actually accomplished enough to pull something like that off.

Oh, yes, there's a HUGE difference between CL's elegant style and msscribe's writing, which is pretty dire. I went & read a bit of msscribe's current LJ (it's now delawarean) and really, it's hardly grammatical.

[orca-girl.livejournal.com]

Yeah. It would be *possible* to fake the msscribe style -- but that would have to mean that someone who was a writer of CL's caliber would have had to be faking the msscribe persona fairly consistently for *years*. Again, possible. It's clear from the documentation that a few times, msscribe herself made some cosmetic modifications to her writing style when she would write as one of her socks (though she seemed to always leave some "tells" in there). Possible -- but very, very unlikely.

[aphephobia.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure we met through the Black List debacle. *Friended you- I missed ya*

I have a post written about the whole thing from my angle, which really needs to be public if I post it... that said, I'm terrified of some of the F_Wers going to town with it. I don't think all the crappy behaviour has been on MsScribe's part- there's some seriously spiteful stuff going down which really doesn't feel appropriate when this many people have been hurt.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Hi, yeah, I remember the Black List so very well. We even had our own icons.

I have a post written about the whole thing from my angle

Really? Do, I'd like to see it.

I don't think all the crappy behaviour has been on MsScribe's part- there's some seriously spiteful stuff going down which really doesn't feel appropriate when this many people have been hurt.

Right now? Or in retaliation for MsScribe's actions?

Icarus

[aphephobia.livejournal.com]

Both right now and when the original caper was going on. At the end of the day, no one's saintly, and if I recall correctly, what MsScribe dealt out wasn't exactly taken lying down.

As for now- yeah. There are people on F_W who are in effect sneering "Ding Dong, the witch is ded (yay!)" I think it's understandable, particularly given that there were people on that side who weren't listened to, but seems to be a real note of "Nyah Nyah!" which is pissing me off. It just seems to be in poor taste at the moment.