Fandom Wank - I actually read one for the first time

[icarus]

Six months ago I told epicyclical (I think it was her, either that or she replied to it in someone else's journal) that I clicked on a something called 'Fandom Wank' from a link in someone's journal once, blinked at it, "who are these people and why do I care?" and hit the Back button thinking "that's three seconds of my life I'll never get back." (And if I've ever been on this thing don't tell me because I honestly don't know and like it that way.)

Well, I heard about a wank-thing in someone else's journal and... okay, I clicked for the hot icon, but I did try to read it because I realised I knew both parties.

I see why people do this wank stuff. It's rubber-necking. A little like a car crash in slow motion. The argument developes from it's petty origins, veers out of control, wipes out several other cars (as people choose up sides) and then crosses into on-coming traffic. It's horrific, yet there's something amazing about the amount of damage just talking on ones cell-phone (or a livejournal) can do. Mere words.

But after about three or four comments, I felt a little ill with the mean-spiritedness. I showed it to wildernessguru and he got depressed -- and he didn't even know the people. "Why did you show me that?" he asked. I looked for the bottom line of the argument, and it was simple and rather petty. Nothing you could bring into a court of law, just a matter of opinion, though I suppose a case for defamation in the aftermath could be made if you worked really hard at it. A lawyer once told me that companies don't get in trouble for what they do, that's usually fairly simple. But the weird things they do to deal with it is where they cross the line into illegal territory.

So I propose a Wank Survival Kit.

Airbags and good Anti-lock breaks.

If a simple discussion starts to skid, the ability to stop and the use of some patience can keep the car from wiping out others. sparrohawk once said, "If you just leave it alone, it'll usually go away." Always remember the original argument and who the original argument was with -- it was rather small, n'est pas? Just a matter of opinion?

Emergency food supply and blankets.

When feelings are hurt it is best to tend to the injured right away. The temptation is to start to blame and choose up sides to retaliate. Instead, send private emails to friends, and chat in Y!M, etc. There is no wank a good vat of Haagen Dazs can't solve.

Walk away from the scene of the accident.

While I would never recommend this for a real accident if you have a ten-car pile-up in Wankdom, it's best not to stand around watching. This takes iron control. But a few things can help:

- never read other people's wanks. (Don't get in the habit.)
- never throw your own opinion in the fray of other people's wanks. (It is addictive.)
- don't bookmark wankfest sites. (If you don't know where the action is, so much the better -- you won't know where to look when it's you.)
- don't check the LJs of the "offending parties." (Be generous. Give them their time to vent.)

It might take a time out from fandom or week out of LiveJournal to be able to do this, give yourself some time to cool off. In fact, I have a wonderful idea: write a story!

Consult with your inner attorney.

Once you've finished your third vat of Haagen Dazs, have spoken with some supportive friends who've told you everything you want to hear and are feeling better... try to examine your own part in the matter. Now don't blame yourself. We're all only human. But how could this have been prevented? Examine:

- what was was the original argument again?
- why was I so upset about something so absurd?
- did it tie in to some other deeper issues that I can use this help me?

This is a private process and good mental health. Learn from it. Then take steps to ensure that it doesn't happen to you again.

Dispute resolution.

This takes tact and class - and guts - but if mature parties are involved, a simple private email to the original person can go a long way to resolving a problem. And you might either emerge with a friend or at least develop a new-found respect for the other person. (Icarus nods to spare_change.)

Comments

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well gossip keeps the Soap Opera industry alive and everyone watches Formula One racing for the brutal car crashes. But it makes me wince.

It's never really intend for the people that are wanked to find the place.

So it's intended to be behind people's backs.

There are rules about linking back to the op.

What's an "op"?


Icarus

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

So it's intended to be behind people's backs.
Well no. It's bascial that we understand that alot of people don't find chuckling/debating/iconloveage over some of the kerffelues in fandom as amusing as we do.

BBC as been wanked even. Wank is always 'look at what his idiot did', sometimes its, 'ooo that was amusing'

OP- is original poster.

I've been wanked, Sushi's been wanked. Normal if you roll with it or shurg it off we/they go onto the next shiny. Yes some of the people over at F_W are a-holes, jerks and basical mean spirted.

But to each there own.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

OP- is original poster.

Ah. Thank you.

So it's intended to be behind people's backs. -- Well no.

I'm confused by this, Kiji. So if the "OP" or person being criticised don't know about it, and isn't supposed to know about it -- it isn't behind their backs?

BBC's been wanked ... I've been wanked, Sushi's been wanked. Normal if you roll with it or shurg it off we/they go onto the next shiny.

So it's okay because everyone and everything's a target.

Icarus

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

My apologies if I'm intruding.

So if the "OP" or person being criticised don't know about it, and isn't supposed to know about it -- it isn't behind their backs?

If someone goes to the person being wanked and posts something like "haha they're all laughing at you" then that person may feel pressured to respond and defend themselves, flame back, etc. If they do that out of anger it just puts them in a bad situation, because... like we don't care if we're flamed. In fact, it's usually an occasion for a party.

When we don't link back, it gives the person being wanked the option of ignoring us if s/he chooses. If it's in a public post, it's subject to public comment. But linking back usually feels like baiting.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

So making fun of people behind their backs is okay, but telling them you're cutting them down behind their backs is not okay.

But it's still behind their backs.

Icarus

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

So... are you saying that public posts aren't subject to public comment?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Are you saying they are if the person is unaware of them? How is that possible?

Icarus

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

My question was are you saying that if a person posts publically on the internet, then it's impolite to comment on it?

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

And my question is, how is it not behind someone's back if they do not know the discussion is occurring?

Icarus

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

Why are you worried about people talking behind someone's back when you have this in your OP? Instead, send private emails to friends, and chat in Y!M, etc.

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

Let me try again, since we're coming from such different ways of thinking about this. To my mind "making fun of people behind their backs" implies that the person doing the mocking is protected from the consequences of his or her actions.

So lets take a trip back to middle school* for examples. Lets say you whisper about the geeky girl to your friend when the geeky girl walks past. She'll never have a chance to defend herself. If she hears that you're whispering, she can't really confront you because you could always deny that you were talking about her. Or, if you wrote "PIG" on her locker with a marker, chances are she'd never find out who did it. All those sort of "behind her back" actions allow people to act with impunity.

If you say something on a public forum and sign it, then you can be held accountable for your words. We had a wank about a girl who snagged Dominic Monaghan's leftover cup and drank out of it, and a couple of weeks later she came back and responded to the comments. She didn't have to, but she did. She had the opportunity to see all the posts and to respond.

In your original post, you recommended private emails and IMs for cooling things down. Is it out of the question that some of those would be more like the behind their back behavior that you dislike about f_w? What are you going to say privately to your friend when she's been attacked? A lot of people are going to say "Just ignore her, she's always such a bitch anyway. She's not worth it." And... that's okay. It does help people cool off and save face, but it's more behind-the-back than what f_w is doing.

If linking back wasn't like throwing plutonium on the flame wars, then we'd probably do it. Normally we don't mind backing up any comments that we make, but that's different than getting dragged into the melee when tempers are at their highest.

*Hi Snacky!

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Who's or what is Snacky?

Icarus

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

For our amusement we have laws regarding trite and overused arguments used in flame wars. They're sort of like Godwin's law, which basically says that whoever compares the other side to Hitler and the Nazis first, loses.

Snacky's law states that whoever compares the other side to those mean girls who made everyone's life hell in high school loses the argument.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

So you're pretty involved in F_W. Then my disliking it must seem like a personal affront.

Actually, I graduated from a very small school (graduating class of eleven) and at times I was the only girl in class. Not much problem with the mean girls in the halls. But the prom was awfully small. ;)

Yes, hyperbole is a useless argument. In Buddhist debate, there is a defender and a challenger, and the defender is not allowed to propose counter-arguments. They can only answer the questions posed by the challenger. The system is designed to keep the discussion focused.

Icarus

[sagralisse.livejournal.com]

I'm not affronted. I'd just prefer you to dislike f_w for what it is rather than what it isn't.

Probably why I'm debating with you is that I truly dislike it when "getting wanked" is the big issue. Some comments in here indicated that some people go friends-only just for that. My personal opinion is that you should try to avoid wank and flame wars and all that because it hurts your friends and fellow fans. Some of those people care about you, and they get upset when you're upset. You end up spending too much time on hurt feelings and sniping rather than enjoying your fandom. The opinion of a bunch of snarky strangers should pale in comparison to that.

I like your guidelines. If everyone followed them I'd have to get another hobby.

Sorry about wandering all over the place, but I'm just trying to get why the behind-their-back thing is such a problem, given the alternative. Having people laugh at you on the internet is uncomfortable, whether or not you find out about it while you're mad or later on when you've cooled off, whether or not you can read the posts or not, and whether you're confronted in a way that makes you feel the need to defend yourself or not. We just choose to laugh at people in our space and not in theirs.

::waves::

[snacky]

Hi Sagra!

Sorry about barging in here. To make this not an entirely useless comment, I will say, imo, the difference between f_w and talking behind people's backs is this: we're not hiding. We're saying what we say, mean, funny, wanky, in defense, whatever, and (most people are) signing our names (and I might add, I've noticed that anons and their opinions are not afforded much respect, simply because it *does* seem cowardly to be anon). It may not be a nice or a popular opinion, but I "own" it, if you will.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I have another question because I'm trying to understand the thinking behind this. This is a regular debate between wildernessguru and I actually.

Do you have rules about the OP, or one of the OPs participating in the Wank should they happen to find out about it? What about regular posters in fandom wank? Do they have an "edge" in the discussion? (I hope that makes sense.)

Icarus

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

We have rules along the lines of 'Dont link to minors journals' and please use work safe icons. And there is a no trolling rule. Other memeber of F_W catch you trolling you will get a new a-hole chewed no matter who you are.

No one has a real edge, (the joke is that we eat our own) we'll mock our own for doing wanky things as much as we would a totaly stranger (or more so since well we know them).

General if they the OP finds out about the wank entry its normally commented upon but little else unless they come over to F_W and try to agure with us about why we're like the mean kids from school. Gnerally give it a day (or less) and we've moved on.

There is OT_wank for things that arent fandom. And I_wank for when people want to report they've done something wanky.


Hope that makes sense.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

I think I see now. This is like Anthropology assignment.

And there is a no trolling rule.

I know what "trolling" is on Forums. But what is trolling when the point of the discussion is to rip a third party in the first place?

but little else unless they come over to F_W and try to agure with us about why we're like the mean kids from school.

What about if there's a two-way battle (yeah, mom's "it takes two to tango" sank in) and only one of the parties shows up to participate in lobbing bombs at the other?

No one has a real edge, (the joke is that we eat our own) we'll mock our own for doing wanky things as much as we would a totaly stranger (or more so since well we know them).

Is it more a good-natured teasing because you all know them? Is there a particular crowd of regulars (sort of like the Summary Executions)?

And I_wank for when people want to report they've done something wanky.

Why do people I_wank?

Icarus

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

I know what "trolling" is on Forums. But what is trolling when the point of the discussion is to rip a third party in the first place?
No trolling as in, don't got over there an tell the person wanked that there an ____ or poke at them or post a think to F_W. Half the time its not even the person that starts the wank that gets talked about the most. Sometimes its the topic itself. Actaully alot of the times it is.


What about if there's a two-way battle (yeah, mom's "it takes two to tango" sank in) and only one of the parties shows up to participate in lobbing bombs at the other?

What I meant was we won't go into the OP journal and makefun/mock/point out that maybe people disagree with them. If they come and post and F_W with nothing more than 'you guys are mean', we will mock them more. If they come over and try to have a debate with us over the topic, hey we're all for that. That is what F_W really is. You can debate topics there without worrying about someone going 'OMG!!!11!YOUSTUPID!', people will disagree but it normally well thought out and free from netspeak.

Is it more a good-natured teasing because you all know them? Is there a particular crowd of regulars (sort of like the Summary Executions)?
Nope, even if its the one of the oldest memebers, they'll get the same treatment if not worse. Espical if they break one of the laws: ie, comparing something unrealted to Naizs, saying your not repsonble for being a bitch today becuase your sick/pregaunt/cooking pasta, or the favorite that its okay to say something about some group becuase your brother/sister/mother/friend/fourth cousion twice removed is in that group.

Why do people I_wank?

Becuase sometimes we all realize we've done something really dumb in a post wether if be fandom or no. Kinda saying some remind me never to do this again type of thing.

If you can stomach it, lurk over there(F_W) a bit. If you ask questiois nicely (even as a anoymice) people will normal anwser you nicely.

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

http://www.journalfen.net/userinfo.bml?user=fandom_wank

might help a bit too.

I've seen people wanked even with the one posting the wank to F_W, agrees with the OP.

*wondering if people will defriend her now*

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

*wondering if people will defriend her now*

I won't. You've been honest with me and answered all my questions when I've kind of put you on the spot.

For that, you get the butt-sex icon -! *points*

Icarus

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

Heh, I've seen that icon and it teh good. (over at F_W none then less.

People do sometimes get sorta of funny when they find out someone that read F_W is on their friends list. And I can understand that. F_W isn't for everyone.

[icarusancalion.livejournal.com]

Hey! I didn't work. *tries again.*

*Points.*

Icarus

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

The link didn't work? Werid...*scratchs head.*
Hmm well here's the user info:

Fandom_Wank Snarky Bill of Rights
with thanks to sagralisse

We reserve the right to not get blamed for your sucky behavior. Fandom_wank members are far too fat and lazy to go bothering people outside our group. If you want to go trolling or harassing people for the fun of it, then do us the courtesy of leaving the community first.

We reserve the right to decide for ourselves what's wanky and what isn't. If you get pissed at somebody and bring your personal gripe to the community, be warned: we might decide that you're more mock-worthy than your opponent. Got a personal gripe? Take it to fandom_rant.

We reserve the right to post stupid stuff. We reserve the right to gripe when when stupid stuff is posted. That's the way we do things, so don't get into a snit about it if someone doesn't like your post. Or do get in a snit about it... whatevah.

We reserve the right to be nice whenever we feel like it. Don't assume that we're going to snark at you if you ask a simple question, like "what's a BNF." Unlike some communities, being a plebe here doesn't automatically make you a target.

We reserve the right to read fandom_wank threads without a bunch of graphic porn popping up on our screens. No, we're not prudes. Some of us have kids running around and some of us read at work. Use your graphic icons in your own journals. If you must post something graphic in a fandom_wank post, put it behind a cut and mark it "not work friendly."

We reserve the right to wander off topic as much as we like. If you got wanked and there's 250 comments on your thread, then guess what! Most likely very few of them will mention you at all. The only way you'll know what we're talking about is to read all the comments. Yeah that sucks, so sorry.

We reserve the right to think for ourselves and question authority. Always. Forever.

Please do not link to a minor's entry in fandom_wank unless the entry is in a community.