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Aug. 2nd, 2004 08:34 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
icarusFound in ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
wikdsushi's journal.
No Pity, No Shame, No Silence.misia's friend was raped, and she's suggested people come forward to show her how they survived.
I am not a survivor of rape. I'm a survivor of child molestation, which is somewhat different.(And one reason the chanfic Little Boy Blue was easy to write from the child's point of view.)
Children are too innocent, or at least some are, to require force. It is often not violent but rather a betrayal of trust. Often they are lured: with candy, or favours, or a dog or cat.
But usually, it's someone they know and trust.
The "pervert in the park" is the smaller proportion of child-molesters. More commonly it is step-parents, or step-brothers, or an "uncle" who's really mom's boyfriend, or neighbours, or a regular babysitter, or a friend of the family. It's common for alcohol or drugs to be involved, and there's a difference between serial child-molesters and those random crimes of opportunity. The ones who make a habit of it are the ones who are caught. The random ones almost never are, because children don't tell.
Both the serial child molesters and the random ones have this in common: they don't see the child as a child. They become close enough to the kid as an individual (or in the case of the Michael Jackson types, are immature enough) that they see the kid as a person, capable of handling themselves as an adult.
Don't look at me strangely. Kids in that 9-12 year-old range are often articulate little people, with a lot of clearly voiced opinions. (Read the Michael Jackson transcripts. He is a classic serial child molester. He treats kids as equals, which is very appealing to a kid, and he does not understand that kids at that age do not have the voice to say no.)
I don't know how to prevent it. Teach children to distrust everyone? Yes, you should definitely teach them about sex earlier than you think. You should definitely teach them that there are certain ways of touching that they can and should say no to, no matter who it is.
The main thing is, kids at that age are hemmed in, surrounded by authority figures. Your parents tell you when to go to bed. Your teachers call on you in school, or give you permission even to go to the bathroom. The habit of obedience to those in authority whom you trust (important point) becomes ingrained.
I think what's most important is to nurture your kids' independence, even if the results are occasionally annoying. Then there's a chance when that trusted person tells them to do something strange, the kid feels they have a right to weigh it - and say no. Child molestation is usually not violent rape, but luring. Since these people want a willing participant, "no" very often will be enough.
wikdsushi's journal. No Pity, No Shame, No Silence.
misia's friend was raped, and she's suggested people come forward to show her how they survived.I am not a survivor of rape. I'm a survivor of child molestation, which is somewhat different.(And one reason the chanfic Little Boy Blue was easy to write from the child's point of view.)
Children are too innocent, or at least some are, to require force. It is often not violent but rather a betrayal of trust. Often they are lured: with candy, or favours, or a dog or cat.
But usually, it's someone they know and trust.
The "pervert in the park" is the smaller proportion of child-molesters. More commonly it is step-parents, or step-brothers, or an "uncle" who's really mom's boyfriend, or neighbours, or a regular babysitter, or a friend of the family. It's common for alcohol or drugs to be involved, and there's a difference between serial child-molesters and those random crimes of opportunity. The ones who make a habit of it are the ones who are caught. The random ones almost never are, because children don't tell.
Both the serial child molesters and the random ones have this in common: they don't see the child as a child. They become close enough to the kid as an individual (or in the case of the Michael Jackson types, are immature enough) that they see the kid as a person, capable of handling themselves as an adult.
Don't look at me strangely. Kids in that 9-12 year-old range are often articulate little people, with a lot of clearly voiced opinions. (Read the Michael Jackson transcripts. He is a classic serial child molester. He treats kids as equals, which is very appealing to a kid, and he does not understand that kids at that age do not have the voice to say no.)
I don't know how to prevent it. Teach children to distrust everyone? Yes, you should definitely teach them about sex earlier than you think. You should definitely teach them that there are certain ways of touching that they can and should say no to, no matter who it is.
The main thing is, kids at that age are hemmed in, surrounded by authority figures. Your parents tell you when to go to bed. Your teachers call on you in school, or give you permission even to go to the bathroom. The habit of obedience to those in authority whom you trust (important point) becomes ingrained.
I think what's most important is to nurture your kids' independence, even if the results are occasionally annoying. Then there's a chance when that trusted person tells them to do something strange, the kid feels they have a right to weigh it - and say no. Child molestation is usually not violent rape, but luring. Since these people want a willing participant, "no" very often will be enough.
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Date: 2004-08-02 10:04 pm (UTC)All along my parents were worried about the uncle who was a druggie and a drifter, instead it was the nice, normal acting cousin who was in town for a vacation.
It can lead to damage and low self worth which can lead to being victimized again and again (which happened in my case as I was raped in my late teens).
Having gone through all that, you have to buld your own self worth and realized that you are worth something and that people do care about you and not everyone is out to hurt you.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 12:32 am (UTC)That's very true.
Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-02 10:57 pm (UTC)Yes. Exactly. I wish I had felt I had that right.
*hugs you*
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Date: 2004-08-03 12:33 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-02 11:14 pm (UTC)*hugs you*
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Date: 2004-08-03 12:21 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-03 12:28 am (UTC)I have an idea! You should have kids of your own! :D
sadly, i can relate greatly. i was a victim, too. By my cousin.
-sam
http://samscorel.net
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 12:37 am (UTC)I'm sorry.
I have an idea! You should have kids of your own! :D
Eh. The closest thing I'll have to kids are Ron's kids in Reunion.
Icarus
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 02:25 am (UTC)It's okay. it wasn't your fault... 'sides, i was 8 so i was kinda stupid back then.
Eh. The closest thing I'll have to kids are Ron's kids in Reunion.
Haha, i've read that story! The twins are raining with babies and girlfriends!
whee
-sam
http://samscorel.net
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 01:05 am (UTC)It definitely needs to be pointed out more, that child molestation rarely is the "pervert in the park", but often someone the child knows and trusts - and therefore doesn't tell about :o/
I want to ask how your personal experiences affect your views of chan, though¹: how do you feel about writing a story like Little Boy Blue and having people tell you they thought it was "hot"? What are the ethics of enjoying reading chanfics?
¹Since I'm trying to put together an essay on chan. I like reading chan, but it's certainly an issue-filled kink to have, and I'm trying to work out my own feelings about the ethics of it.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 01:50 am (UTC)I actually have a written an article on this subject, though not pertaining to chan but, well, rape and non-con in fics. But the same theory applies.
There's a difference between fantasy and reality. Real rape is about violence. In my article I listed the types of injuries sustained in rape, and it's pretty obvious it's about hate.
In fantasy rape, the motivation for the one who relates to the submissive role giving up responsibility: "what could I do? There I was... ravished." A reaction against how difficult it is to pick the right partner. For the aggressive role, it's about not having to negotiate the complexities of a relationship but just have the one you want, face rejection. The motives are completely different.
For Chan there's a similar difference between fantasy and reality. The abuser in a real child molestation is using the child as a convenient and helpless outlet. Fantasy chan is about something different. It's about simplifing relationships.
From the point of view of identifying with the child, it's a reaction to a loss of innocence and attempt to regain that sense of everything being fresh and new. Unjaded. From the perspective of the adult, the fantasy is about power, a reaction (very common for women) against relationships where the power isn't balanced, is a struggle of wills, or where the other person (often men) dominates. In this fantasy, the chan bottom is putty in your character's hands and you're completely in control.
It's late, so I hope this made sense *yawns*. Good night,
Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-03 07:07 am (UTC)*gives you hug anyway and is proud to see your bravery*
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Date: 2004-08-03 07:49 pm (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-04 01:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-04 08:39 am (UTC)Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-03 02:53 am (UTC)So much love for you, and I agree so strongly it hurts.
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Date: 2004-08-03 05:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 06:07 am (UTC)Especially agree that children should be taught about sex and abuse earlier than some people think. It's never happened to me, but there is at least one instance in my childhood (by a female relative, no less) that would have gone a lot differantly had I not instictively recognised the bad touch for what it was, and refused to step in her house again for that reason. I can only be grateful to my mother, who beeing an abuse survivor, did her damned best to educate me enough on the subject at the earliest age.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 06:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 07:58 am (UTC)I guess you're learning to deal with it if you can say "I should have been taught" instead of "I must have done something wrong". My own experience is that it stays with you for your life, but if you're lucky, it'll turn into an incentive to act, not a sickening memory that keeps you frozen.
Hope you'll heal.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-04 06:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-04 07:04 pm (UTC)Glad to hear that.
What doesn't kill you... can sometimes still cripple. Not every body by a far way is able to heal. On the risk of sounding terribly thread-bare; I think that in learning to deal with bad things one can grow stronger. But just surviving doesn't necessarily help.
As above, I find anger is always a lot more helpful than shame. It certainly discourages the next sicko.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 07:21 am (UTC)(I know of one excellent childrens book, "The little and the big No". Basically it shows classic situations: adults asking wether they might sit beside you/kiss you on the cheek and ignoring the timid "no", teenagers asking whether they may have some of your candy and ignoring the timid "no". The child in question endures that for a while, but then get's angry, stomps, says "no" loudly: the big No. People look a bit affronted, but leave the child in peace. Important: there's a note for the teachers/parents to tell their kid that sometimes the "big No" won't be enough, and then they have to seek help: teachers, parents, people whom they trust.)
Those are little things, but I think they are decisive. You can't teach a child to not "speak up to grown-ups" for 10 years, and then expect it to break through that.
Interestingly, you are right about the "no" very often being enough. Some elder teenager fromt the neighbourhood tried to use me for heavy snogging when I was about 6 or so, and after I pushed him away for a couple of times he gave up on it. I bear some after-effects, most noticeable that I'm unusually agressive and kept the annoying habit of speaking my mind when it'd be so much less complicated not to speak up.
(And I feel terribly uneasy about chan fan fiction, but I don't confuse that with "nobody should ever write it because it worries me". Well, it's another story.)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 10:14 am (UTC)For all parents out there, keep an eye out for those problems, it has made it really hard to cope with real life and sometimes I find it hard to stay in reality.
This morning I woke up convinced I was Severus Snape. I think it may have been because I was stuck in the dream I had lastnight. Anyway, I gotta run before you all think I'm really crazy.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 07:37 pm (UTC)There are a lot of factors in this, I think it's really situational. Abuse that occurs at really early ages is hazy because kids memories are hazy at that age. Then there's a big difference between ongoing abuse that a kid needs to escape, and abuse that's an abberation, so stands out in stark relief from a relatively well cared-for childhood.
This is rather a sensitive issue, because kids get accused of "not remembering" or having "false memory syndrome" when they remember darned well what happened.
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Date: 2004-08-03 11:03 am (UTC)*hugs* You're a brave and wonderful person.
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Date: 2004-08-03 04:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 11:39 am (UTC)I just know that with what happened to me, I don't want to happen again even if I still can't say much or remember much about it.
Ah shit, I think I said too much. Sorry...
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Date: 2004-08-03 07:47 pm (UTC)As of today my biggest worry is that we're out of ice cream. Which is an alarming development since I'll have to go all the way across the street to buy more.
What to do....
Icarus
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Date: 2004-08-04 01:05 am (UTC)[grins] Wouldn't you think that life in a city would be more convienient? And hmm, just out of curiosity, what flavor would you be getting on your journey over yonder and afar?
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Date: 2004-08-03 06:11 pm (UTC)I agree with teaching kids to say no and be independent.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 07:32 pm (UTC)For one thing, I started wetting the bed around that time. I had been fine for years. I honestly didn't stop until I was eleven, which led to abuse from parents who didn't understand. Rubbing my face in wet sheets, spanking me every time, refusing to let me drink anything after eight, then seven, then six. I've never ever told another soul this...whew, about to cry. Another response was to pack on the pounds. I ate not only for comfort, but to make a shield between myself and the rest of the world, particularly men. I tend to fluctuate between relative shyness and almost promiscuity (LOVE ME! syndrome) unless I'm watching myself. I have minor panic attacks and sometimes slip into deep depression. I'm always almost-depressed, which makes it hard for me to take care of myself the way I should. Sometimes I just don't care about anything.
As for how I eventually dealt with it...time. Heh. It's cliche, but time does heal (most) wounds. I didn't become sexually active (and I am thankful he never penetrated me) until I was 19, only one partner until age 22, so I'm just now starting to recognize that trading physical affection for love niggling in the back of my mind. It's hard to not feel a little bit of dread when a guy first touches me.
I'm also taking control of my life for once instead of just letting things happen. For a long time, I used avoidance and denial as a crutch, which became a habit in all areas of my life. I know now that by taking things one step at a time, by asserting myself and not taking shit from anybody that I can actually live. Instead of exist.
The hardest thing to get over is that I believe my parents had an idea of what was going on. They just didn't do anything about it and wouldn't listen the one time I tried to tell. I learned not to trust them, but I wish I had went to another adult. Talking about the abuse itself years later was like passing a kidney stone--extremely painful, but a huge relief.
I recommend the autobiography Lucky to anyone who's been through a violent rape. Can't remember the author at the moment, but I can find it if someone wants it.
Sorry for rambling in your LJ, hon. I guess I just needed to let it go a little more.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 07:41 pm (UTC)Yeah, time heals all wounds. And 24 years pretty much buries them. It's one of the nice things about getting older. Which is good, because the grey hair is starting to worry me. ;)
Icarus
no subject
Date: 2004-08-03 09:34 pm (UTC)